RFC: Unarmed Combat Skills

Discussion in 'Archived Topics' started by Jack Knyfe, Jul 8, 2015.

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  1. Jack Knyfe

    Jack Knyfe Avatar

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    I was thinking about the current spread of non-magical fighting techniques, and I noticed that we were missing the most basic of fighting skills: unarmed combat!

    What I propose would be a basic punch/kick system, which could later be expanded into specific styles. Perhaps eventually in future episodes it could also include grapples and throws.

    Examples:

    Norgardian style - based off of Glima, or Viking martial arts
    Ardorian style - based off of some iteration of Kung Fu

    The student would need to travel closer to the region of origin in order to train higher in the specific style, and as further episodes are released, there could be yet more schools.

    I'd like the skills to be non-glyph-based, and be entirely passives. The moves would be something completely done using the new free attack system, and have a unique control scheme. Something like a hybrid of Street Fighter EX, but using WASD + mouse clicks, or something similar. Some of the skills could even add status effects (knockback, knockdown, slow, stun) to attacks.

    I think this would be a great boon to the game, and give mages something to do as an alternative to wielding wands, staves, or traditional weapons.

    What do you think?
     
  2. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

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    I like it very much. I do think we are missing unarmed as an option. Also I like training options to be interesting in all schools of combat, so hopefully we can get some fun and depth in that aspect. :)
     
  3. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    I'd love to see something like this!

    I like the idea being completely passive, but we could even do away with a traditional skill tree. Without having any weapon in hand, free attacks are just a punch. If you go and learn a style, it adds to the attack sequence to make it more interesting/effective. For example, learning Norgardian might replace the standard "powered up" punch with a haymaker, while learning Ardorian randomly throws in a more damaging kick instead of a punch. Learning a style should be a quest in and of itself, so while it is "skileld combat" it takes place entirely outside of the standard skill system.
     
  4. Mata

    Mata Avatar

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    Good idea! :)

    I would like see boxing and/or wrestling in SotA.
     
  5. beetlebear

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    Great idea. As a disciplined monk I would love to see a system having to do with disciplines in place to "buff" the current skill system. By vowing certain things, you build up power over time as long as you keep your vow. For instance, my character does not wear clothing save for some ripped up pants. This is because I have vowed poverty. This could be further fleshed out if I was supposed to give ( tithe ) my gold at a shrine, give it to other players, etc..

    Or maybe if a player refuses to loot, open chests, etc.. These are other vows / disciplines of not being snoopy, not being greedy, etc..

    So as you live your disciplines, you slowly gain a fraction of a point of benefit per # of time that passes while you are disciplined. An easy example of how this would benefit the player using the above ideas:

    Beetle vows poverty, doesn't wear armor/clothes, gives his gold to a shrine or throws it away, relies on begging to survive, doesn't loot, etc.. each one of these things could ad .01 to my poverty discipline but if I'm doing all of them, I'm getting .5 per tick of time that needs to be filled for this specific discipline.

    In battle, Beetle fights a wolf using only martial arts, due to his discipline over X number of time, he's acquired 10 total points in that discipline. Damage rolls are calculated, and an algorithm is run to determine the bonus damage from the attack based on poverty.

    In other disciplines, maybe each punch or kick gives you 1hp, buffs your strength, etc..

    So what I'm suggesting is don't change the game in the sense of adding more physical, weaponless attacks, buff the current system but force players to sacrifice certain factors of their gameplay to reap benefits later on.
     
  6. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    All good ideas but right now we're trying to control scope creep so we can get to a Live state. Once live, the releases will continue though and this is the type of stuff we'll be looking at adding. Tech wise, this isn't a huge chunk of work as we drive all attacks and damage through data. The biggest time sink will be animations.
     
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  7. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    BTW, a partial step towards this that would be easy is just to have a skill to increase hand-to-hand damage.
     
  8. TheMadHermit

    TheMadHermit Avatar

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    I use to play a monk in my D&D campaigns. Love the suggestion!

    Need me some:
    • feather fall
    • quivering palm
    • base movement speed increased while unarmored
    • attack speed increase bonus
    • AC bonuses
    • Ability to dodge arrows
    :)
     
  9. Jack Knyfe

    Jack Knyfe Avatar

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    I completely understand. I look forward to seeing if this can be worked out post-launch for a possible E2 rollout.
     
  10. mikeaw1101

    mikeaw1101 Avatar

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    Nice suggestion, but it would be WAAAAAY more fun if you could only punch someone in the face AFTER drawing the proper glyph from your deck. Otherwise, not believable, breaks immersion with existing game mechanics.
     
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  11. Jack Knyfe

    Jack Knyfe Avatar

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    That would be nice.

    Would that also increase the damage of the Fist line of spells? (Flame Fist, Ice Fist, Stone Fist)
    If so, that would really increase the effectiveness of my current build.

    Additionally, regarding animations:

    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/3271

    Could something like this be modifed to work with our character models?
     
  12. blaquerogue

    blaquerogue Avatar

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    Yep I want to be a monk! Also add bo staves, and martial art stuff, i mean one of the houses looks of orient decent anyhow, and there are people running POT as a sort of Asian theme too!
     
  13. Isaiah

    Isaiah Avatar

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    I'm all for that as long as it is almost totally ineffective at killing an opponent especially with a weapon. Sorry unarmed people are not effective against weapons. Karate do, and karate don't make no difference against broadsword.

    What is effective is the ability to throw a person, and the ability to pin them.

    Cops don't beat people up standing toe to toe. Kung fu is not good because the other oppenant can still fight back. What you need is to take the person down and then you can beat on him while he is pinned. If kung fu was so awesome then cops would use it, but kung fu is good for the movies, cops pin people and then beat them up.

    That is the difference between reality and fantasy.

    EDIT: Think about kung fu vs a person who is wearing armor. Even leather armor. Those punches and kicks aren't going to do much damage. Although somebody being tripped or pinned is effective with armor and might be even more likely to work because the armor's weight can aid the momentum of a trip.
     
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  14. Jivalax Azon

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    I love the idea. As a long time martial arts instructor the idea has great appeal. However, I would not change the dynamic. Use glyphs as "skills" learned. How else to differentiate between a punch, palm strike or even Iron Palm? Lots of difference between a front kick and a thai kick. Glyphs make it easy. Want to put together your own style, just buy the right skills and assemble your deck.

    Love the idea of auto-attacking (a bit different than passive, which might be more like auto-dodge) with empty hand moves.

    Love the idea of going closer to the learning centers to train the skills.

    Hope we see this in E2.
     
  15. Jivalax Azon

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    Sorry to pick a bone, Chin Na is Kung Fu as is Shuai Chiao and I have taught many law enforcement officers and those needing non-leathal means of physical non-mechanical restraint (like those working in youth facilities and with the mentally impaired). BUT I agree with your point, in real conflicts going to the ground is very effective, kicking to an armored head, not so much.
     
  16. majoria70

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    How about fake death? In Vanguard some classes could fake death. I forgot about that skill.
     
  17. Isaiah

    Isaiah Avatar

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    Agreed. Cops love to learn fighting moves, but they get the most out of locks and controlling moves. They just don't go toe to toe because the risk is too high. They have a gun for that. If the person is wielding a weapon no cop is going to use kung fu, they shoot the guy. If the person is unarmed, they will take them to the ground.

    I totally respect your art form. I think it is definitely effective, and a trained fighter ought to beat an untrained fighter... unarmed. Although using kung fu to fight against people wearing armor and using a weapon is not realistic.
     
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  18. Isaiah

    Isaiah Avatar

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    If they do the Monk character from legend (like D&D) it needs to be a mystical discipline.

    The ability to catch arrows, move really fast, jump long distances, take less damage from a fall...

    Although I would rather see the monk using weapons not just unarmed tactics (although they ought to still be somewhat effective unarmed). Wielding a quarter staff, or polarms would seem to fit nicely.

    Although right off the bat people need to hear why punches won't do as much damage as a sword. Some people think MONK, they assume that their fist is going to do 100 points of damage. So to keep people from getting angry, the in game trainer needs to explain the obvious .... weapon stronger than fist!
     
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  19. Jivalax Azon

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    Sorry, my bad. I wasn't clear, I forget everyone is not a martial dork like I am. Chin Na is joint locking and Shuai Chiao is take downs. :) We are on the same page.

    And to further Isaiah's point, much of kung fu is about weapons. Many of them involve blades or weights and some styles employ armor. We tend to think all of kung fu is punching and kicking like in the movies, but when it was applied as a true martial system in warfare it involved weapons and armor.

    For reference, kung fu means "a skill gained with time". So playing the piano is kung fu. What westerners think of as kung fu is more traditionally called wu shu (not to be confused with the non-combat Chinese art of forms by the same name). There are over 1,500 recognized styles of kung fu and probably that many more small styles. Implementing even a fraction in a martial arts game is beyond capacity. So if any of this were to come in, broad generalizations would have to be made.
     
  20. blaquerogue

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    Also Samurai, existed and did pretty good against armored opponents until firearms and the Gatling gun came along! I am also an instructor in Hapkido and Aikido, I can tell you one thing, its very easy to un-arm an opponent wielding a sword, knife especially a halberd and pole arms, and kill them! so believe what you want! But martial arts could very well come into play and be just as effective as a weapon. if you are trained you can do that. As far as a pole arm LOL easiest thing to take from someone!

    hap·ki·do
    häpˈkēdō/
    noun
    noun: hapkido
    a Korean martial art characterized by kicking and circular movements.

    ai·ki·do
    īˈkēdō/
    noun
    noun: aikido
    a Japanese form of self-defense and martial art that uses locks, holds, throws, and the opponent's own movements
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
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