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Swing batter batter..

Discussion in 'Release 20 Feedback' started by Soulicide, Jul 30, 2015.

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  1. jiirc

    jiirc Avatar

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    Here's the case for it that doesn't make sense in putting up 'too far'.

    First off you don't have a target anymore, everything in front of you is a potential target. So if you you fighting multiple opponents, mob or people, when you swing, even though you hit something, the others should have too far printed for them.

    Personally I like the highlighting and the pulsing. Give them time to get it right.
     
  2. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    Uhm, I fear I didn't get it... :oops:
    Indeed.
     
  3. Soulicide

    Soulicide Avatar

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    I feel like for it to be any useful, the pulsing would have to be very bright and more rapid than present. That would be extremely annoying in my opinion. I don't want to have brightly lit, flashing mobs but if the indicator of in-range is going to be ON the MOB, rather than ON your BAR it will have to be something bright and flashy otherwise the mechanic is useless. And at that point...talk about immersion breaking. My view in a nutshell: This mechanic cannot be useful if subtle. And if it's not subtle it's just annoying.

    Again, the simplest solution would be to have skills grey out on your bar so there is no guess-work. If this is a test to see how aspects of combat might work without a hot bar on the UI..then meh.
     
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  4. Greymarch

    Greymarch Avatar

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    I noticed that you get a goldish border around your abilities in the ability bar when you're in range. It's a lot more subtle than before but noticeable when you know what to look for.
     
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  5. Ashlynn [Pax]

    Ashlynn [Pax] Avatar

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    If it is the hitboxes that are one of the problems then that is going to be an important thing to address otherwise it is going to be a bit horrid fighting large creatures that have the same size hitbox as a wolf.
     
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  6. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    If my swings don't hit then neither should their's. Specials also shouldn't work if not in range.
     
  7. jiirc

    jiirc Avatar

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    And hitting keys, looking at the combat bar, and watching for the range indicator isn't immersion breaking?

    I can't speak to simplest, because that is about implementation. But from a design perspective if you goal is to watch the bar, it's might be the best from a design perspective. If you want to watch the fight not the bar, its not the best design solution. I can't talk about whether one is simpler than the other to implement. It despends on how've they've coded things.
     
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  8. jiirc

    jiirc Avatar

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    Sounds like skill weaving, combos for melee, have been fixed for 294 (as per the latest patch notes). They mention AoE, but that could mean cone of attack. Or it really could be an AoE. Will beinteresting to see in that build.
     
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  9. Soulicide

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    I personally never needed to take my eyes off the fight to tell if my skills were greyed or something still on CD. The contrast was easy enough to see without looking directly at the bar that it became like second nature in my peripheral. That's me though. And you're right. With the way things are coded now with the open-skills and cone of attack, implementation-wise greying may no longer be the simplest solution. I don't claim to be a programmer so no idea there.

    Yes. Something seems really off about the cone of attack right now. If I can't reach them with my great axe then they shouldn't e able to reach me with a rusty shortsword. And going through all the trouble of spell-weaving say a 4-stack of knockdown to keep an archer from running, only to be very unlikely out of range and lose all those glyphs and the focus...it's really stinky. Seems right now the best thing to do is to stand as ontop of them as possible.
     
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  10. Ashlynn [Pax]

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    I know I said in a previous post some weeks ago I didn't really like the idea of a crosshair but...

    I am wondering if a simple sort of crosshair (maybe just a point type one) that is normally a subtle dull grey but turns a bright gold colour whenever it hovers over an opponent you are in melee range of. Perhaps that might be one solution. Also make it a toggle on/off feature or perhaps it only appears when in combat mode.
     
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  11. Soulicide

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    Unable to hit, but it was able to hit me. In order for me to be within range I had to be almost on its snout.

    [​IMG]

    Again, unable to hit but he was able to hit me....with his dagger.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    In both of these images, the enemy is off to the side, are you sure your character is facing them? That will cause a miss too.
     
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  13. Soulicide

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    I am pretty sure I was facing them directly. I stood there for quite some time, testing different angles and gradually would inch forward to see how close I could get and still be unable to get range, while this dagger-wielding bandit laid into me easily from a few arm-lengths. I don't think this system is intended to be as finicky as "you were slightly at an angle". When you are fighting with most blades, generally you are not going to have the front of your body facing the enemy anyway. But the point of these two images is to mainly show that the enemy should not have been able to hit me from that distance.
     
  14. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    Yep, I agree! I was fighting bears for the hat quest, and found the bear constantly backs up out of my range, but is still able to swipe at me while i'm hitting nothing. I keep having to back them into a wall to create a 'fair fight' scenario
     
  15. Steevodeevo

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    yep, there's something not right in r20 with hit rates. when facing two opponents for example with knock down, such as bears, i can shuffle around for up to a minute and if im lucky i start to get a series of hits on the beast. Range seems to be the issue. I'm using a singe handed sword - anyone else finding double handed or poleaxes etc easier?
     
  16. Beaumaris

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    In some ways it is more realistic to be able to use a skill glyph regardless of whether an enemy is in range or not.

    Perhaps the answer is not to change the freedom to use the skill, but the quality of the targeting indicator to know when a foe is in melee range.
     
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  17. sn0tub

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    Is this a case of hit boxes being to small or weapon range not finalized?
     
  18. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    I fear both.
     
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  19. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    A group of us went troll-hunting last night. I was standing practically under his kilt and still missing. Rather than watching the troll, i had to turn on combat:self and watch the chat box.

    I don't think that is the game experience they wanted for the first big creature.
     
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  20. Albus

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    I agree here, but also think the main issue is the disparity between npc melee range and avatar melee range (and/or hit box if that is causing a part of the range problem). I like being able to attack whether there is an opponent visible in my swing area or not (imagine some stealth or invisible character taking advantage if we cannot swing while he is near us), but a combination of inferior melee range for avatars along with no range (within range) indicator makes this all pretty rough at this point.

    I'd say first fix ranges (not sure why npc's have longer range to begin with, but should be fixed and by weapon type, i.e. npc with dagger has shorter range than npc with greatsword, and same range as avatars with similar weapons). We may not really need an indicator of target being within range if the range itself is fixed, but I'd definitely fix the range itself first and test that.
     
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