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State of the Game

Discussion in 'Release 20 Feedback' started by Material Defender, Aug 2, 2015.

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  1. Material Defender

    Material Defender Avatar

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    I haven't put a lot of time in on the game until recently but have instead "kept a toe in water" as it were through numerous updates. With release 19 & 20 however I have logged a number of hours feeling like at this point in releases the game should be in a "playable" state.

    I was 5 year veteran of UO MMO and have played numerous other MMOs throughout the years. When I head of SOTA I was in, big time.

    Here are my personal and general observations of the game thus far....

    Negative:
    • The card system is a terrible idea and I just plain don't like it. Trust me, I tried to, I hate it
    • The mapping system is also terrible. It started really crappy, now has much better graphics but is still terrible
    • Combat plain sucks
    • Tons of graphic and functionality glitches
    • To me it feels like the only effort put into the game is in creating content they can get more donations from rather than focusing on foundational playability
    • Graphics quality has some nice high resolution bitmaps but execution and lighting in the 3d world is mediocre at best
    Positive:
    • The music is very good
    At this point I feel like I want my money back but I will hang on and hope for better days. The game feels so far away from even being Alpha that I expect they will run out of money far before they get there. I'm in big on this game from a $$ perspective so here's to good luck and godspeed with future updates.
     
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  2. NRaas

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    Welcome Material Defender, always good to have another opinion in the mix. :)
     
  3. Kalamar

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    I second every point that Material Defender has made above. I, too, am a UO veteran. I am unique in that I was never into the D&D universe. But quickly got into UO. I was hoping that I would see a lot of similarities. But the only thing I see being developed well is the housing environment. What about combat. It is downright terrible as is. This card based system is not for me. I wonder how many more people out there like me are losing faith due to the games current state.?Are they really getting close to ALPHA?????

    Don't misunderstand, I WANT the game to succeed and be the best game ever. But, this card based system IS going to keep a lot of people away, IMHO!

    In release 19 I was able to go out and defeat various enemies with some difficulty, but not unmanageable. Now, not only do I get bum rushed by more then one, they can shoot from a LONG distance with perfect accuracy. Also I see their fireballs even go around objects! Oh, what's up with them having super fast movement speed? Don't even get me started on you have to kill things three times!!!!!!! And this is even after I tried to muddle through setting my skills or cards or whatever.
    Why can't I have my skills available to me when I want them vs. the draw??? VERY FRUSTRATING!!!!!

    Oh and for a game getting close to Alpha why the step back in performance? The people I play with all have noticed that character movement is no longer smooth.

    What's with the mapping system or lack thereof ? It has a lot to be desired.

    One other thing I can't figure it is how are there people running around with full houses, armor, vendor, etc. within 24 hours after a wipe!?!?!?!?!!?

    I could go on and on, but I will stop now......

    All of the above are MY OPINION. I WANT THE GAME TO SUCCEED, but I just don't see it happening with the way it APPEARS things are headed.
     
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  4. Falstaff

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    I am hoping that the animation and combat gets a good polish. But Release is a long ways off. Things will get better
     
  5. Marek Laemenard

    Marek Laemenard Avatar

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    Very interesting to read the OPs thoughts. They echo a lot of other posts around here that I've come across (not just in this thread).

    I personally think the deck system is awesome and a very cool idea that has promise. I'm saddened to see such a widespread reaction by what seems like an overwhelming majority of folks who dislike it. But that is solid feedback from all of you who can't stand the deck system, and should be listened to. Perhaps this is why the devs put into the R20 hat quest that they are putting a lot of thought into combat.

    As for the mapping system - not sure how I feel yet - probably will have more of an opinion once I have more weeks/months played. But for now, I'm kinda enjoying the fact that I can't find my way by auto-clicking a map point and go run errands while I wait. I actually have to think and treat the game like real life before GPS. But that will probably wear off and I'll be like you, haha. Though yes, I was super into D&D/AD&D back in the day and loved trying to write my own maps on graph paper as I explored dungeons and other places.

    Combat is indeed awful at the moment, but it's still very much in the middle of major design changes (or it feels like it anyways). I can't imagine a finished/released game would have combat like this. I agree that things will get better on this front, and this may well be something that is easier to clean up that other aspects of the game, once a solid system is decided upon (because I'm not a game developer so I have no idea how easy or hard this is, but I do like optimism!).

    I also absolutely share your concerns that there's a very real possibility they will reach a saturation point with pledges/money coming in, and as a result, have to abandon development. When I spent money to pledge, I had to tell myself it was a total gamble, and that it might all drop through the floor tomorrow. There's only so many years you can stretch people before morale starts to fail, I suppose. But here's hoping that we all have the result we all want - a really awesome game that was worth the wait!

    Anyways, I never played UO. Everyone talks about how amazing it was, and it's a bummer I was focused on different games at that time. I like that this is supposed to be a "spiritual" successor. Still, I hope that the devs here are able to come up with a game that innovates rather than try and be a sequel / carbon copy of a game that was based on user interfaces and graphics that are now ~18 years old.
     
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  6. Beaumaris

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    I appreciate a first reaction from newcomers being to not like the deck system. It certainly is different.

    However, I still believe it will grow on folks as they grasp how flexible the system is. As implemented now, SOTA's combat allows one to either 1) lock all skills in the bar, 2) rotate all skills in the bar based on how the deck is stacked, or 3) lock some slots but let others rotate a range of selectable skills. Don't like the deck approach, don't use it. Lock all skills. This provides for great choice and customization not seen in other most other MMOs. And in my book, that level of customization is golden. There are so many other games that provide no choice. It is refreshing that SOTA provides not one, but many, in the combat system.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2015
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  7. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

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    Yes for new people welcome and hang in there. The beginning of a release is usually buggy and they will fix it. The release was very rich in new stuff and that is so wonderful, but of course gave more issues. Don't forget where you are is my opinion. For me I am loving the changes to combat. Keep trying. So I am melee and what I do with my fighting is I keep free attack on which takes a bit of learning curve and while things are on cool down, I revv up the power on my swing and hit the hard over and over and over, then throw in some skills here and there as they pop up. To me it is the best of both worlds. So I use my right hand to free attack and point at the opponent and then my left hand hits the skills and the 'w' key to keep me on their butts. I am finding graphics off of course since you need to be right inside the oponent to be effective with the free attack. I dont bother with combos that much, I dont like how they work and they help less than the revving up anyway. So in R21 more changes coming and our feedback and patience is very important. For any frustrated remember it is a process and things change every release. I can tell you horror stories that would make you cringe and appreciate where we are now of course but I wont carry on with that. :eek: So while I can't make it ok for your experience of a pre alpha game, only you can do that, I always offer to help if I can here or ingame I am majoria. Yes right now we do have pledge rewards and the state of funding the game to add more features to it gets complained about and pledge rewards get complained about, but you will have better things than any pledge reward in game if you craft it. Do the quests and ask for help. I love the directions we are going in. Per release notes and my take on the release notes every item in the game had to be touched to prepare it for future wonderfulness. Again hang in there and I welcome you truly.:)
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
  8. A'chelata

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    I appreciate your position of optimism, but the combat system indeed has a LONG ways to go to even begin to be attractive to people who enjoy combat. The only choices that SoTA offers at the moment to players who are used to serious quality combat found in other games is 1) Sucks or 2) Sucks worse.

    It's real interesting how so, so many people who are looking for an awesome combat experience keeps telling everyone that this is not it. While the mostly non pvpers who are intrigued by a combat system that lets them play a mini card game while not watching the screen, keep assuring us that it is fun and will grow on us. No it isn't, and no it won't. It is utterly UN-enjoyable when compared to playing the multitude of other games we have played.

    Release 20 was supposed to have changes in the combat system to address some of these issues. Where is the detailed release information in regards to the combat changes? Why is the in game player's guide not updated with the newest combat changes to help guide people to test and give feedback? Where are the developer posts highlighting the changes and asking for feedback?

    I'll tell you why, it's because they have gotten so distracted with building sims life that they have forgotten to announce that after all this time of building that after months of developing a system for which the reception has been 'luke-warm' to spin it in the best possible light, that THERE IS NO PLAN B for a quality combat system.

    There are some great aspects and potential to this game which highlights some great talent from the developers, but obviously for all of them in their playing career, they were always the sheep and never a wolf, because if they ever were in a serious pvp guild in UO they would understand how much of a joke this combat system really is. It's slow, cumbersome, severely limiting, and disappointing when 'auto-attack' is your best friend.

    I've spent over 8 hrs yesterday and today and gotten my char to only lvl 13 and I still can't hardly kill anything by myself, and still have no better gear than what I started with, i've died probably 50-75 times, since after 4-6 skills, i'm either out of focus or everything is on these ridiculously long cool downs. This is NOT FUN at all, and if it sounds like i'm pissed off, it's because I am. I'll just go play some more Archeage instead and wait for SoTA to get it's act together in regards to combat systems.

    Sad, so very sad, and I say that as a die hard fan. :/
     
  9. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

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    Yes I agree grumpy to mising the combat highlights. I saw a few things but that may have helped for people to get the most of the changes. At first I thought there werent many. I just focused on the fact that the way combos work or that we even still have a combo system is still the same. You must drag or work around it. But after playing with combat I am seeing many things and learning to work with some of the new that I do like and for me that is using free attack after I learned to get 'very very close to an oponent before using it and that I many times am only to get 1-3 ticks off before I must hit using it or one of my skills that pop up. But I guess thats for those who keep trying and try things to give it a chance, well if they know what to try. I rarely ramp up the free attack as mentioned above but that is the fun of it for me.;)
     
  10. Jordizzle

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    Good evening Material Defender! I will unfortunately have to disagree with you for the majority. :/

    I personally don't understand why people call it a card system. It doesn't feel like a card game to me. To me it feels like you have a lot of abilities to use at your disposal and I think the system we have now is very innovative and a lot more fun than any combat system I've ever played in an MMO, and I've played just about all of them lol.
    I had my doubts about the overworld map in the beginning, but it's improved so much and is going to continue to get better. I really like it now. Of course a free open world would be awesome, but we don't have that. .and I think this is the best alternative to that.
    Combat is really fun to me.
    I disagree 100% about the only effort put into the game is in creating content they can get more donations from. I started actually testing the game in it's first few releases though so I've seen the game come a long way.
    I also think the graphics/lighting are really good. There is some polish and tweaks needed here and there but that's to be expected in an early access game.

    You're entitled to your opinions though, I just hope that in future releases you will be able to see the game the way I do.
    Good feedback though. .cheers!
     
  11. Kara Brae

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    Before R18, the combat system wasn't the focus of development for over 6 months, if I remember correctly. Since then it has undergone several changes, and it is still being tweaked. I agree with @Jordizzle, in that it doesn't feel like a card game to me in its present state.

    For a game that people will want to play for years, advancing to level 13 in 8 hours sounds pretty good to me. I believe the game should be challenging at the beginning, otherwise there will be no satisfaction in advancement.

    Being killed 50-75 times in that timeframe is too much. If you die so often, you have not chosen a successful strategy.
     
  12. Jordizzle

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    You can create a hotbar with all locked glyphs if you want this game to be like all the others out there. They basically removed all penalties for this. You can even create combos with locked glyphs by combining them with others that are not locked now.

    So, now that it is clear what you can expect, we should also be as clear about what you should not expect:

    • Performance: We have only done rudimentary optimizations, and we do not yet have a full suite of performance fallbacks (LODs, etc.). This means the game will be quite slow on older machines, and due to memory usage, and might be unstable in certain conditions (like densely decorated areas). With each release, we will be doing further optimizations and adding to our fallbacks to improve performance.
    You should read the information provided to you in the Release Instructions sometime.



    This game wasn't meant to be easy.


    Some people have pledged higher than you, or purchased houses in the add on store, and have spent a lot of time learning the game so they know how to advance and gear up quickly. It's just experience really.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
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  13. Taze

    Taze Avatar

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    Just wanted to add that at first I hated the desk system
    Then I learned what the combos are and how they work
    Then i watched the video on the deck system and learned how to stack certain skills to setup combos, and even lock individual keys

    Now I love the desk system

    So to eliminate the time from Hate to love, or Hate to "learn to deal with" it does perhaps need more tutorial loving, etc, but i think thats called polishing?

    Got to be careful though, while it has been proven you can in fact polish a terd, its a LOT of work, you dont want to put off to the polish stages.
     
  14. Halic

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    The game can be ridiculed and/or defended to the cows come home, the bottom line is the game is a sign of the current video games time, its a money grab game, it will be at least a year I figure before its even close to being releasable (decent), any overall evaluation of it as a current game is like reading the steam reviews from 6 months ago saying they had no content and no one should buy, heck of course they didnt duh its not close to being finished, its barely playable now let alone 6+ months ago.

    If we review anything it should be based on what they introduced currently, like the new content or combat changes:
    The complete change of the combat system has left be shaking my head, 1 step higher or lower, 1 step farther away then a mob and suddenly I cant hit it.... that is just poor QA or the control point pass mini game now, wow you really just had to throw a obstacle in our way to waste more time running across this god forsaken map? :)

    Or the fact that they added vendors:
    Another thing folks fail to realize, the saying of player driven economy will absolutely be a joke here, it will be the player with the best location economy and even then I cant see anything but raw materials selling for folks that dont want to spend the time gathering, hopefully with the upcoming release of actual crafting in depth skills we might see something different, but I fear crafting will end up being WoW'ish in nature and way to simple.

    But us saying that game overall sucks isnt going to get us anywhere because its not even close to being ready for release. We really need to keep the eye on fixing what can be fixed, namely bugs, basically were paying for the right to be testers, some people are paying thousands for that dubious honor, me and the wife will end up getting our 600 bucks of enjoyment out of the game but right now there not impressing us all that much, like I said hopefully in a year we will see greatness.
     
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  15. A'chelata

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    Maybe because, that's exactly what the developers termed it as? A card combat deck system, and you are right, it doesn't even feel like a 'good' card game. This is a hodge podge of bad game play mechanic design, bad visual focus design, and not caring that so many players hate it because after all, it's a new idea (sorta) and we must run with it so that we are 'innovative'.

    The reason they made absolutely ZERO mention of combat changes, is because they really don't want people to go the route of the fixed bar. They aren't really interested in solving the combat issue as they are just shuffling it down the road till launch while they focus on more important issues like making sure that crafting and home decorating are top line systems . The real secret is that in the long run, the goal is to have a complete auto-attack system where the player with the largest cash shop balance always just barely pulls out the win in the end, this random card deck system is just the bridge to make player controlled combat irrelevant.

    It makes perfect sense, first create a large controversy/crisis, 2nd, come in and implement drastic changes that make you look good for the emergency, 3rd, sit and do nothing for a period of time while the crisis builds, then never let a good crisis go to waste, inform everyone that this is the new 'normal' and by this time, they will have forgotten what they ever had in the first place, and everyone hails you as the hero. Problem solved = no one gets butt hurt over losing a fight, because no one really fights anymore. It doesn't matter that a whole lot of people will be turned off and not play this game, the important thing is that the 25-30k people who actually play for enjoyment, will play exactly in a limited fashion that we control that ensures that no one has any individual greatness. After all, it's not pvp anymore, it's dice roll vs dice roll + cash shop expenditure totals.


    The most you have at your disposal at any given time is 10. That's it. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10....... less if you want to have 'any' potions up. That's a far far cry from most of the games I have played. I have 10 abilities in just 'one' skill tree in a different game, and guess what, I can use ANY of them at ANY time. This system we have may be 'innovative' but unfortunately 'innovative' doesn't equal good or fun for everyone.
    challenging ? sure, that's fine . . . .absolutely completely frustrating and retarded for a 'new user experience', i'm sure that was what they were aiming for. Even dying 10 times in the first 8 hrs of game play is not a smart strategy for a new user experience. In Archeage, I started my new char and advanced the first 20 lvls without dying even once. It was a hell of a lot more fun than this was.

    what 'successful strategy' should I have chosen considering I had no armor, a crappy sword, and after using 4-5 skills , everything is on cool down while I'm getting pummeled? Heck, just entering combat made every skill be on cooldown. Let's jump out of the bushes onto this skeleton and . . . . oh, wait for it . . . . . wait for it . . . . ok now . . .. no, wait for it . . . . .. now i'm ready to thrust . . . . Not that it mattered, since I didn't even have enough focus to complete one encounter? In other games, I can fire off 5-6 skills in the time it takes to use 1-2 here. I've said it before, as have many many others, and i'll keep saying it for as long as it is true . . . . this combat system is not for the serious combat oriented player, most certainly not for pvpers, and really, not even a great system for the casual users. SoTA has successfully moved the bar on making player controlled combat obsolete. I couldn't be MORE disappointed in the state of this system.



    They have promised to turn serious attention to the combat system. I don't see it happening. If they were serious, their ACTIONS would show it, and the lack of attention and importance that they gave combat for this release (they DIDN'T EVEN MENTION the combat changes in the patch notes) clearly shows where their priorities are, and combat isn't it. They are going to just continue to make a few 'tweaks' and then this is what we are getting at launch.

    It's okay if they want to make a game where combat is irrelevant and the main focus is on flower pot design . . . . just be man enough to stand up and tell the truth for what it is. I understand that it was important to get all of those pledges from former UO players first, but now that the cat is out of the bag, just man up and speak up. But wait, how about this, let's design a real combat system and just sell it in the cash shop to the pay to win pvpers . . . . problem solved, real combat enthusiasts are happy, Port gets $$ and there is more money to do research into 'HOLISTIC' flower pot design . . . . . man, this idea is HOT!

    They talked during kickstarter and the early days how pvp was going to be important and an integral part of this game. What a freaking joke! With the system they have designed for combat, even if they 'could' design systems that encouraged quality pvp (I SERIOUSLY doubt they even have a 'qualified' pvper on staff), there will be no large scale guild wars here, there will be no massive 100 vs 100 fights here, there will be no massive sea-going 5 frigates full of sailors vs 5 frigates full of pirates battles here, there will be no 'resource laden' pvp controlled zones (SPO FTW?). there will only be random casual encounters where whoever beats the 'on cool-down or no focus left' monster wins.


    Prove me wrong devs, as if you wanted to . . . . .
     
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  16. Kalamar

    Kalamar Avatar

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    Reading all of these great comments has me wondering one question to all..... How many hours a day do you put into this game that is in development? I, like Material Defender originally stated, really have not started to pay to much attention until R18-19. This is mostly due to other games that had taken up my limited time. I have a wife and child and career. I only have a limited time during any given week to devote to my online gaming. Thus, the reason for my question above.

    So, to me it always feels like I am way behind on the in game changes compared to the majority of others I come across in game. For me placing my house is not something I need to do every time a wipe is done. I am looking more at the combat system at this time. I was originally hoping for a combat system like UO. It wasn't broke, so why try to change it? If this is going to be a hardcore of hardcore MMORPGs, I think a lot of people will not have time or patience or just not want to make the effort to dive into figuring out the whole combat system.

    Again, I am a veteran gamer that was gaming when Atari 2600 and Intellivision was all the rage. Maybe its age, wisdom, maturity, or whatever speaking here, but I am just concerned that the game will be catering only to the hardcore players and scare off the casual gamer due to the sheer in depth, immerse, everything this game may offer.
     
  17. majoria70

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    Hi Kalamar. I just want to comment to your post. Today I planed for and played the game from 8:00 am to 10:30 pm. that was very long for me. I understand when you have a family, child, and carrer that you must be limited on your playing time. So today there was just amazement for me. I was easily writing notes to people and surprising them because I could put my written note to them on the floor or in the chest I had made for them as a gift. I was making bark bread to earn cash. While searching the world I purposely did not pay attention to exactly where I would find the troll or trolls since I found one. I wanted to experience that first look at the Troll as a surprise and it was such a terrific surprise to suddenly hear the drum like sounds of him getting closer and closer. My first look was just so amazing having seen him in this way. I did not want that first look to be spoiled thus I avoided the chitter chatter about him to some degree. I watched the development thread but actually seeing him was a very different experience. So if you have little time to play find someone to catch you up so you too can experience the amazing things that will come each release from this release forward. I would be happy to any time. I can even write you a note :rolleyes: ** Cheers to you** :)
     
  18. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    Criticism is fine, but it should be productive.

    Saying everything sucks without getting into the specifics of why you don't like it, or offering ways to improve systems doesn't really help anything.
     
  19. Abydos

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    I can live with the combat system but not with the PvP. We need risk, challenge, danger, fear and emotions.
     
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  20. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

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    Well we shall see, we shall see and are you playing also? Of course I don't see it as hopeless. More on the "if you only look at what is, you might miss what could be" thoughts.

    I do try to look with open eyes and an open mind at what someone says or does. I believe you have great intentions meant for the good of the game since you are passionate about it.

    So in the end it will be what it will be in spite of the anguish or non aguish of getting from point A to point B. That part is all up to us as an individual. We will travel our own roads. So *cheers* and I do hope to see you in the game.:)
     
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