So Devs Is The PvP, Ever, Going To Get Anything Done On It?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Whiskiz, Aug 31, 2015.

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  1. Whiskiz

    Whiskiz Avatar

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    I mean its great that you guys churn out pvp zone after pvp zone after pvp zone and POT pvp zones with new unique PVP POT zones and group pvp zones accessed through towns and solo pvp zones accessed through towns and pvp zones and pvp zones and pvp zones and pvp zones, but are you guys actually ever going to do anything for pvp except just provide more zones to do it in?

    Esepcially when Just churning out more pvp zones waters the almost non existant pvp down all the more.

    Yes pre-alpha etc etc etc etc etc but WTB one, just one incentive, just one simple mechanic for pvp. Just one. Anything. Anything at all for people that like to pvp as well as, more so, or instead of pve. Just one little bone thrown to people for the pvp side of the game. Not much to ask for?

    As great as it is in PvE repeatedly fighting the same 10 different enemies and grinding harder than an asian browser based game currently while keeping your pride intact.

    It makes it even worse that everyone seems to hide and spend weeks/months levelling first, on the asian browser based game-type grind, and then repeatedly do it again because we are still in the wiping process.

    And why shouldn't they? why bother doing pvp at any level besides 80+ mostly, if at all? Of course this is currently, but again, just one simple mechanic for pvp could have been made a long time ago.

    People even try to dedicate a specific zone to pvp, advertise on forums, guild website, the internet, twitter, in-game, move other guilds in, make events and generally go through, a ton, of trouble because not one simple mechanic has been made for it.

    But it just ends up with houses from different guilds in those zones, alot of wasted time and effort, a random fight here or there every few days with still mostly no pvp action and basically a ghost town. and because there is no incentive, both when those guild members interested in pvp are housed in a said zone they are never there and when guild leaders get easily manipulated, lied to, and played like a violin to be used in a personal vendetta, they just decide to pull their guild out of the zone and ban them from ever going there again because theres nothing to lose, nothing to gain from being there except the fun of the guild member but that apparently isn't all that important.

    I smh as to why the pvp side of things has been completely ignored. Sure we aren't quite the numbers pve is (Because its alot safer, easier and makes you feel better about yourself. No trolling or flaming etc intended.) but why is it alright to abandon the minority when it comes to gaming? Can you imagine if it worked like that in real life?

    I also know (the majority of) pve'rs aren't interested in pvp so they dont care about pvp nor people that like to pvp, but that doesn't justify it either.

    Just my 2 cents on the topic and would really like an answer from a forum mod or dev, and of course any other player that would like to share their 2 cents worth.

    Its just that its an amazing game, even more amazing considering its only in pre-alpha with way more potential to come which is the only reason i took the time out to make this thread and ask this question (Otheriwse i'd have just moved on already.) and i would honestly be disappointed to have to go elsewhere, to be able to pvp.

    Thanks for your time devs, forum mods and players alike!
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
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  2. Whiskiz

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    P.S Im not just a ganker that is wanting something like full gear loot in pvp zone. I actually don't like that idea, that would only encourage gankers and attacking weaker players and disrupt pvp because you have to go regear and cant pvp when you dont have anymore gear nor then pve for that matter, etc.

    I mean something fun like you can designate maybe 5 plots in a 50 plot POT to have a control point, and mutliple guilds in a POT can have a control point each and basically each control point that one guild captures maybe gives you like 1% increase training buff and/or movement speed buff or atk speed etc, so people are always going to back in to try control them before level grinding and in general.

    And then pvp'rs can stay in for their constant fun. and itd give guild pvp'rs a job, they can try and keep a hold of the points for the pve'rs while the pve'rs do their pve, teamwork, everyone gets their own playstyle, it benefits everyone, its easy, fun and makes everyone happy and work together in both pve and pvp :)

    Just off the top of my head.

    Soon people will forget all about levelling from having too much fun in pvp :p

    Or a vendor that doesn't sell pvp gear but maybe unique pvp themed house decorations etc for pvp points.

    pve players may not like specific stuff for pvp, but pvp needs something unqiue, some reason to do it and lets face it, 90% of games is pve specific, please let us have one small unique pvp specific system if no other decent idea can be implemented that would work.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  3. Violation Clauth

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    The purpose of PVP is PVP... it's the reward. That said, leaderboards will be in Soon(tm)
     
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  4. Whiskiz

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    I disagree, that may be how a pve'r sees it, on the outside with not a whole great deal of interest of it themselves so its an easy and common thing to declare before washing your hands of it, no offense.

    The purpose of pve isnt to just pve, to just stand there all day every day and fight a monster and thats the entire game and the reward for doing it.

    Its to get levels, advance your character, get more skills, more skill points, get crafting mats to make gear for further character development gold for house decoration higher levels to go do dungeons and higher content big bosses, general adventuring to have fun etc etc etc.

    Should be the same with pvp.

    Also, leaderboards are very artifical and while its good for proper 1v1 or 3v3 etc, it doesn't work for, nor would be able to encourage, open world (zone :p) pvp.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  5. Lord Viator

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    Well, as a forum mod, there is not much I can contribute on the actual topic of which you are discussing. We have no coverage of the game itself.

    However, there is a section in today's livestream which may be of interest to you:
    Check out this post for the full schedule: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?p=52974
     
  6. Myrcello

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    Hello @Whiskiz

    We had in the past following discussions or ideas that Developer had mentioned

    Quests that have a PvP Purpose. The example back then that was often presented from the Developers: One person gets a quest telling him to protect a wagon of goods being delivered to point b. And others might get the opposite quest to avoid this smuggler ware getting delivered from a to point B.
    This leading to a PvP Situation.


    Then we received ideas of PvP Zones with having better items to gather then somewhere else. But this stuff might become lootable if you get killed. But only the stuff you gathered in a PvP Zone. Nothing else.

    One of the very early ideas had been mentioned by the Developers is making maybe Items , or 1 Item "lootable" in PvP , but these can be "ransomed back" from the Looter.


    Then we have some reached Kickstarter Goals that promise PvP:

    -Player take over the World

    Castles & Keeps effectively a new "Town Type", where structure is ownable by players or Guilds
    Guild can declare war against other Guilds
    Guilds can declare a full time PvP

    Minimum of 5 castles types added to the game
    Castle defense scenarios for most castles which can be played offline as well as online.

    -Dynamic and Contested Resource Nodes + Optional Minimap System

    .Meteorites, volcanic eruptions, outbreaks of rare plants and animals can appear and vanish suddenly ( online and offline) for those who are paying attention.
    Some PVP focused resources appear in tile.


    The purpose of Eating is Eating - that is the reward.

    Well some of us of course understand that Eating can be so much more. The process of creating a meal, the way you set your table, the decision what wine you serve to your meal, the location, the atmosphere, the purpose of why you eat - who you eat your meal with, the music, the dishes you choose, the reason you eat - a date, a celebration, starvation?

    Same with PvP - is it a quest, a story that leads me to this PvP Action, giving my PvP a reason - will the PvP outcome have a influence on the economy - will i gain fame of it, will other players hunt me, will my PvP actions influence the direction of the story, or influence the standing with other cities, with the Guards, the Oracle, will it have consiquences - karma influence - a item i loose? maybe winning will give me control over a area with my guild, my faction? will my motivation be revenge, honor, despair, love?
    Will the weapons i use in PvP get a own Title?

    PvP can be so much more rewarding then the simple pvp itself.



    I know you know it @Whiskiz.

    Keep up the faith in the Developers. They sure know it also. It consists of a the Team that has members who created on of the greatest PvP MMO of all time.


    And thank you for your feedback . It is worth the attention. Our community is great. We welcome all feedback. And you will always find some who take the time to respond to it with attention.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  7. Jackrabbit

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    If we apply that logic to the rest of the game, we should remove all loot from mobs, after all, the purpose of pve is pve, that is the reward . . right?
     
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  8. Jordizzle

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    Player looting is coming. . .
     
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  9. Whiskiz

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    Thanks man, fair enough. Im sitting in Owls Head as we speak, listening to the radio and am going to zone to join in on the dev/players thing in general, and definitely for the pvp :p

    Thanks also Myrcello. It seems like a lot of grand ideas and mostly just that for a long time to come, when is any of this going to happen? When is anything, one simple system even, going to be made for pvp.

    Well said on the eating analogy.

    The caravan thing would be cool, would lead into a lot of fun and interesting adventures and situations and make for some good stories for a long time to come :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  10. Anna Regina

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    Whiskiz, welcome!

    i like your thoughts about pvp... it's hard to be patient when we can imagine all the fun we will be having when all the systems are in place.

    but imho, if we are serious about wanting to see good pvp in the game it would be good to get involved in what is happening like the combat scrum and also to post bugs and comments on the forums and such. Cause one of the really awesome things about this game is that the devs DO listen to peeps they see are serious about seeing the game be the best and succeed.

    nice to meet you, and hope to see you stick around cause you are a really awesome and fun pvp'r. :)
     
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  11. Ship One

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    The core of a MMORPG is PVE. The core game mechanics are designed for PVE. The crafting, all of it, based on PVE. This subject has been discussed multiple times in multiple threads. PVP = killing citizens. In this game like most there is no discernible downside of doing this. No faction hits, no guards attacking players who murder other players. Though guilds like Vengeance etc. will be going after Pkers.

    SotA does have control points where in the future, there will be factions who can war against one another for control over the control points. Also, leader boards for people who like being top dog. If there is no in game element designed to protect people from being PKed or some downside to doing it, then why should there be a benefit to the PKers for doing it? What did the person you killed do to you? Why do you kill them? If you're answer is banditry, then what makes you a bandit when no in game mechanic makes it illegal to PK people and take their stuff? PVP in this manner only makes potential victims out of its citizens. If Darkfall, AA and AoC are any indication, larger groups kill smaller ones or single people. That's how it works. Sure some people are pretty good at it but if beset by a group, you're pretty much toast regardless. Right now I can avoid PVP zones and the game is fun for me. If more zones become PVP and there are in-game advantages of being in those zones, then I will not be very happy about it. Well, me and alot of other people as well I think.
     
  12. Whiskiz

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    And why is that exactly? Again, who cares about the minority? Not even the minority technically, but just somewhat smaller base of players?

    Again, another person that seems like a biased pve'r that does not understand nor care about or is good at pvp.

    PKers killing people? What did the person killed do to you? More biased assumptions and questions from a purely pve'r. Im talking about open world, or in this case, zone pvp, zone pvp so completely avoidable and consensual, why does there have to be a downside to pvp? Is it alright if i campaign for a downside to pve and get them to remove it from the game?

    You talk of pk'rs, ganking, ganking the helpless (asking what they did to us) etc etc you should actually try some pvp some time, you might learn what pvp actually is and what we mean by it.

    In reality, you either think or make it sound like i and anyone else that wants to pvp is trying to force pvp on the entire game, which is the furthest from what we have been saying. I am asking for even one system for pvp, for people that like to pvp, an incentive to increase the pvp action. It really would have nothing to do nor would involve a purely pve player like yourself. I know its a hard concept, because pve players expect everything to made for them (for some reason) and is 9/10 times, which is why all im asking for is crumbs, one simple pvp incentive/reward/development for people that like to pvp, pvp players, it has nothing to do with pve players nor pve so there is no "helpless citizen" pking (lol) or whatever else.

    Exactly. And us pvp players? I guess that doesnt matter as much.

    We have too many pvp zones now imo (POT's anyway) im not asking for more zones, just more pvp in them. Again, i know pve players are used to getting everything made for them, having the entire game catered to you, but all im asking for is even one simple, decent, incentive system for pvp'rs to come out and do it more and hey as previously mentioned, if it is unique and pvp only and you miss out, just know that the entire other 98% of the rest of the game is there for you, which is pve unique/specific, please let us have at least this 2% :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
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  13. Ship One

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    Yes, MMORPG PVPers are a distinct minority. Most people go to other games, created for PVP. I have my eye on GV.

    I love DayZ and CS:GO. You are making assumptions instead of responding to what I have said.
    There is so much wrong with this I do not really know how to respond to it.

    Self deprecating? Seriously?

    Trying to cater to the masses only serves to bother one group or another. Creating that perfect ratio is not impossible, but very difficult. PVE money has more or less funded this game. PVPers traditionally enjoy when developers force PVEers to have to venture into PVP zones. Now why do you think that is? Right now, it appears that we do not need to and people can engage in PVP, go to PVP zones, have scrums etc. if they desire. It is consensual fun. Soon, there will be leaderboards and control point battles. PVPers can engage in these things without any detriment. If in game advantages are given, accumulation of anothers property, death penalties from being PKed, etc. there should be equal detriments as well.
     
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  14. Whiskiz

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    And there isnt literally 1000 times games out there specficially created for pve that people cant go to? Not to mention people are only going to other games for pvp, because it is non existant here, because there is absolutely 0 support for it, of course they go to other games for pvp....

    Im listening to avatar radio during the telethon, and when pvp came up they said pvp enabled towns were only made due to popular and repeated demand and they only expected to sell like 20 and they have sold up to 250 and counting and are still amazed at that, even ones with currently no overworld access, so, again, just more pve'r tunnel vision and misinformation/bias.

    Pve master race.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
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  15. 4EverLost

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    :confused: Thinks she remembers a list with pvp PoTs and it was nowhere close to 200. Maybe more like the 20. The 200+ was for the number of PoTs sold?
     
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  16. Gypsy Lou

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    Who cares what the "purpose" is? That response is like hearing someone complain that the PvE sucks because all there is to do is kill deer, and responding that "the purpose of combat is combat, it's its own reward". Total non-sequitir.
     
  17. Bolck

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    PVP for PVE players. Come on.

    PVP is just pathetic in SOTA.

    PVP events and PVP tournements are like theater and not real PVP.
     
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  18. Ship One

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    Well, the Devs have spoken. If you missed the telethon, here is the link. (It's 6 hours long)



    Any real changes in regards to PVP will not be soon and it will likely not be as visceral as the PVPers were wanting. I.E. There will be no in-game mechanics designed to force or tempt PVE players into PVP zones. Gankers will have to get their kicks somewhere else I guess. ;)
     
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  19. Bolck

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    Let's be clear, I'm not to force poeple into PVP. But PVP in SOTA is just pathetic, no fun, no loot, no town, no dungeon, no feeling, no danger, no goal ...


    PATHETIC is unfortunately the word.
     
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  20. Ship One

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    In almost every true MMORPG...PVP is. How people thought it would be different is beyond me. I've been playing MMORPGs since 1999. Meaningful, good, visceral PVP is extremely difficult to pull off in a game designed on a PVE MMORPG platform. PVP is easy to design. It requires the same dynamics as PVE combat and no or little added content. However to make the experience akin to what other games designed explicitly for PVP are, it involves class balancing, revamp of combat dynamics, looting etc. In the hangout last night, it's obvious that PVP advocates want gank zones, not just arenas or staged battles. It is clear that the devs are onto this distinction and have no desire to create gank fests like they have in Darkfall, AoC and AA. 'Meaningful' PVP, the definition of it, obviously is not the same between the players asking for it and what the devs want in their game.
     
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