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Guesswork - not fun

Discussion in 'Release 21 Feedback' started by Pleione, Sep 14, 2015.

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  1. Jackrabbit

    Jackrabbit Avatar

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    Knowing or not knowing doesn't change this. Most people are trying to advance as fast as they can/have time for. Should they be able to have an understanding of what is happening so that they can play efficiently, or should they waste hours upon hours of possibly limited game playing time to just because no one understands how the mechanics of skill gain work?
     
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  2. Pleione

    Pleione Avatar

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    Actually... your toon is shared between single player and multiplayer. I, for one, always mine in Single Player mode to avoid the competition... But you point is well taken.
     
  3. Myrcello

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    Ok you confinced me all.

    Could we please have the solo story released also.
    I mean why are we even having this discussion. I mean if we want to find out if the solo story is good and works as intended they need to let us test it to say yes. That is what we like , how a good story should be done.
    I mean it is alpha. The game is not even out. How are we able to test if the story works as intended. This guessing is frustrating.

    Secrets are anyhow not much left.
    Please someone e-mail me the best builds right after chris revealed the math.
    Then we all copy paste them and are even.
    I remember how Chris did mention trying to create a system that does not make it ovious what skill or strategy is the best.
    I liked the idea. ( that creates gaming the combat)

    But maybe it is already so complicated that even showing it still leaves you clueless.

    Sometimes i wish we would have all required to sign a NDA.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2015
  4. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    There are many things that I wish, Myrcello.... Right now I'm wishin' I could say something in response to that - that wouldn't get me slapped by Lotus.........
     
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  5. Myrcello

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    If i say i agree that you need to know to test but i am concerned that it will not stay secret.
    We have no NDA signed.

    I just feel protective of the new gamers experience who wait for release.

    Is that a bad intend i have?

    If i am wrong, and all have the position that this does not matter and is unimportant if the gamers know it at release then my position is of course crap. But then lets get this out if the way first.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2015
  6. Pleione

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    Personally feel the whole "Don't tell us anything because everyone will have the ultimate armor" line is total bullshit. For starters, knowing what is best, and obtaining it are two very different things. Second, what is best for one may be ideal for a cloner, but also serves as a basis for someone to find something better, for their build. Fundamentally there are plenty of variables that will change the definition of "best" depending on how someone wants to play, and others that will change as the character progresses. I'll take just one hard example: Gemmed weapons... early on, when your damage is low, adding a fixed +2 air damage is great. Later, when your damage is higher (typically over 20 points), the 10% flame damage becomes the gem of choice. As of R19, that boosted fire damage spells as well, although I've no idea if that is still the case, since the relevant stat has been removed from V.
     
  7. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    @Myrcello:
    By launch, all of us here (the ones testing) will have a good idea about which direction we want to go at that time, since we've been here experiencing it all....
    Everyone will have their own idea about the best way to do whatever, and those ideas will be shared - no matter what.

    What we're asking for is more clarity (here and now with us testing what they give us in Pre-Alpha) , and yes - we need some of the relevant numbers, so that we can help (as best we can) mold this game into something that most of us want to enjoy going forward....

    Those numbers help us tell the dev's whether or not what they think should happen - actually happens.

    So that, by launch, we all have a product that we are happy with....

    Ok? ;)
     
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  8. Pleione

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    Agree completely Frostll
     
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  9. Myrcello

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    Thx Cassey. Thx Frost.

    I am not an stubborn bull who sticks to
    an argument if convinced different.

    Thx for your response to "my concern"

    Release the Data!
     
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  10. Myrcello

    Myrcello Avatar

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    Even if i a stand in front of you dancing and singing make love not war in a pink ballerina dress (+2 dex)
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2015
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  11. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    Oh now, you just stop that..... l m a o :eek:
     
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  12. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    @Myrcello:
    I am happy we can agree.... I hate it when we don't.

    But I always respect (and occasionally admire) your perspective.... :eek:

    I believe your motives to be pure, as are mine.... We both want the same thing, in the end.

    Peace.... :cool:
     
  13. Taze

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    Well no-one has started one yet, so I'm putting it out there
    #showthedata

    This is PRE alpha - it's not even alpha, Show us the the data, so we can help improve the game, take away the data when it goes alpha or beta if you want, but we can't Fix, debug, or assist if we don't even know what it is supposed to be doing in the first place.

    #SHOWTHEDATA

    Updating Signature now
     
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  14. Pleione

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    You are, unfortunately, a rare person Myrcello... few have your wisdom.
     
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  15. Hardin Steele

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    I like being able to survive, but I also like NOT knowing all the nuts and bolts. That kind of takes the mystery away and reminds me I am playing a game. Just playing and accomplishing stuff and seeing I have "gotten better" at something is enough. I don't want to have to analyze every calculation. That is not fun...at all. Make my interactions natural, give me tasks, reward the completion of those tasks with advancement, repeat. I trust the developers can squeeze the data out of the multitudes of encounters and extract what they need. (I hope so!)
     
  16. Morkul

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    I think that should remove all the numbers from the users all together and replace them with wordings that gives you and estimation.

    The whole idea that you know your every ability to an exact scale are quite strange, you know you are weak or strong at some thing but to know your exact ability?
     
  17. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    I hope they remove all the data when this will be a game.

    As a testing effort, I prefer that I know what I'm testing, and if values are correctly aligned with specifications.

    Once you're on the sea, your boat can feel "smooth" or "creaky".

    But when you're designing it or building it you need measures and precise numbers to assess material stress etc.

    Guess what phase we're all collectively in? Hint: it's not the "I demand fun" phase.
     
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  18. Mugly Wumple

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    Aren't the Devs already collecting all sorts of metrics? Doesn't that make player reporting of exact stats redundant? I suspect that min/maxers are just using this pre-alpha collecting of data as an excuse to support their desire for exact numbers. I think the Devs collect better data by just watching us play than from any player's reporting of numeric combat results.

    Personally, I'd prefer that most of these numbers were hidden from the player and that "Best Build" will always be subjective.
     
  19. Morkul

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    The exact number testing can be done de done on the closed beta server, witch I think it is, and is nothing that have to be done on the public beta server. Thing is once you start to give players information like that they always want more not less. If devs actually would start explaining all stats so all make sense and then removes them there will be a slot of complaining.
     
  20. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    This is not beta.

    This is alpha - a lot earlier in the development.

    Also, closed and public are irrelevant definitions in an early access kickstarted crowdsourced game.

    But I see people keep doing the same error again and again, comparing this to some other publisher-funded game.

    Ah well.
     
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