Female Avatar vid

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Chakra, Aug 14, 2013.

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  1. Chakra

    Chakra Avatar

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    I like the look of the model used in the videos. Just one problem with the shooting of the bow. The right hand is backwards to the string. If you was to shoot a bow this way the arrow would always be off target as nothing lines up.

    From the hand holding the bow all the way down the arm to the anchor point it all needs to be in a line to have a smooth release. If the hand is as it is shown the arrow would fly off in a random direction each time it is shot.

    Also you would loose power when pulling the string as you are using your arm muscles instead of the back muscles.
     
  2. Sindariya

    Sindariya Avatar

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    Do you have a video you can share with the devs where it is shown correct? I don't know how it has to look right, even if have described it clear.
     
  3. Chakra

    Chakra Avatar

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    Here at 5 seconds in you can clearly see the right hand is pulling back the string wrong.

    This is how it has always been done since the longbow. The video is of the recurve bow as it is the modern version of the longbow.

    And the longbow

    As you can see from the vids I have given the pulling technique is backwards to an actual bow. If you was to pull a bow in the way shown in the SOTA vid of the female avatar you would do yourself some serious injury.
     
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  4. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    As the father of two daughters, I'm always looking for games where they can play as female characters.
     
  5. hanskrsg

    hanskrsg Avatar

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    I agree that the animation must be changed a little to seem correct, but at least it looks fluid and the model looks very nice.
     
  6. FireLotus

    FireLotus Royal Bard & Master Dabbler Dev Emeritus

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    I've passed along your feedback to Bren. :)
     
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  7. Bwilson

    Bwilson Developer Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    Hey Guys!
    I'm the animator responsible for this animation and wanted to drop a line to say a HUGE thanks for pointing this issue out!
    For this particular animation I was referencing an archer utilizing the inverted hand style of fast shooting which I now understand is pretty impractical and unorthodox :) I have updated the file thanks to you and I'll post an update soon!

    Keep up the great feedback!
     
  8. High Baron O`Sullivan

    High Baron O`Sullivan Avatar

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    That guy was nasty with that longbow. No effort. Holy crap.
     
  9. Chakra

    Chakra Avatar

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    Yep imagine 250 of those guys shooting at you sending 4 to 5 arrows each into the sky before the first one lands. It is one reason the English was so effective during the 100 year war, the crossbows would shoot their 1 bolt each and have to hide behind wooden shields to reload during this time the archers would step forward a couple of paces and loose their salvo. The arrows would penetrate the wooden shields and kill the crossbowmen who were mainly mercenaries hired from Italy.

    The crossbow had the range advantage but lacked the power and speed of the longbow.

    Also the competitions are still held on Sundays in tradition to the old laws in England. Some like the Fita events are held over the two days though. There is also still an old bylaw where we can walk through town with a bow and a quiver of arrows without needing it to be locked in a case. For the sake of safety though no one in their right mind would do this in modern times. Also a lot of really old graveyards still have Yew trees due to their link with the archers using the graveyards to practice in as well after church.

    A good set of books to read set during the 100 year war is the Grail Quest series by Bernard Cornwell and his other book Azincourt both have fictional characters set in real life events that took place. It is also close to being historically correct. It details the role of the Longbow very well in battle and how the archers are viewed by the other troops and the enemy which are the French.
     
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  10. rild

    rild Avatar

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    A note on this, the inverted hand is a fast shooting style, demonstrated here. It would be neat to see that animation implemented for a fast shoot skill that increased firing rate while decreasing accuracy.

     
  11. Devoid

    Devoid Avatar

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    She's fast at loading, reloading and shooting that bow! It is clear how she is able to reach behind her, grab an arrow from her quiver and lay it on the string in one fluid motion - by using an inverted grip!
     
  12. jondavis

    jondavis Avatar

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    So far the inverted grip looks the be the quickest way to shoot.
     
  13. rild

    rild Avatar

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  14. Chakra

    Chakra Avatar

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    How accurate is it though at a longer distance? And would it punch through the full plate armour at 200 yards ?
    Plate armour is composed of wool linen, hardend leather, chain mail and then the plate armour on top.

    I must admit its the first time I have seen anyone shoot a bow in such a way and I have been shooting archery since I was 13 years old and I am now 40. I have read many books on the tradition of toxophily and not once seen or read about this style of shooting. So it can not be that common otherwise the Chinese, Japaness, Mongolian, Hungarian or even the English would of had something akin to the style.

    People forget that the warbow of the medevil period had a draw weight of around 170 to 200 pounds at full draw, if you didn't pull it back correctly you would pull all your arm muscles and some shoulder muscles. This is why everything needs to be a line, as well as making the bow more accurate you are also looking for more power. With the inverted draw you can not get the same amount of accuracy or draw weight due to the way the human body works. Her elbow is going in a downward direction meaning the arrow at long ranges will fly up and loose power, because the arm can not move back in a fluid motion. All the joints in the human body follow a circular motion around a radius (Tia-Chi taught me this), when she releases the bow the first thing her elbow will want to do is drop down this will effect the release of the string and pull the arrow up. I also say that if I wore my arrows on the back and using the normal medeteranian grip that most modern archers use now I can shoot just as fast.

    It looks cool because its different, but I would challange if it is actually a viable format in combat or at 200 yards against a fully plated armoured knight.
     
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  15. rild

    rild Avatar

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    Totally agree with you Chakra. That's my point - give us different styles for different situations. What if you need to shoot that wizard in cloth robes as many times as possible before he finishes calling lightning down on your head? Guerilla fighters and rangers might use something used for hunting rabbits, where a warrior-archer might have that giant war bow with a 200 lb draw that punctures steel plate.

    There will be different types of bows, crossbows and arrows. I'm hoping for different woods and feathers and tips that give different properties when fletching..

    The video is titled Murmansk, which is a port city at the NW edge of Russia - so I imagine the archer is Russian or Scandinavian. Maybe this is a style of shooting native to the region?

    -edit- There is also the disadvantage of running out of arrows more quickly...
     
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  16. Chakra

    Chakra Avatar

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    I did a search for the Murmansk fast release and there is only one point of reference that I can find and its the same girl in the video. So I am not sure if she invented the style herself or if it actually is an old style of shooting. Using my own knowledge though and experience I would say she invented the style otherwise there would be more documentation about it and where it originates from.

    At 80 yards though the safest place to be would be in front of her as she would never reach the distance or be accurate enough to hit. ;)
     
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  17. blaquerogue

    blaquerogue Avatar

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    Maby its an elven thing?!
     
  18. Krellian

    Krellian Avatar

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    Will there be facial/body customization for this in game? I have several female friends who like to make their MMO characters more similar to their own feminine features - and there are a lot of varieties of features that people find feminine.
     
  19. blaquerogue

    blaquerogue Avatar

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  20. Ao Soliwilos

    Ao Soliwilos Avatar

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    I am not sure how much character customization we will get, but Justin Gilbert is working on exactly that according to the current standup notes. I usually say the more, the merrier, up to a point. I have seen people create monstrosities when give too much freedom, if there is a balance to prevent abominations, that would be great. :)

    If you have seen the new six month progress video, I think the female needs more work on walking animations. Particularly how the legs look, very bent as if she had been sitting on a horse for far too long recently. Hehe. Oh, well. I think Portalarium will give us great females eventually. :)
     
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