Fire as the 'default' mage element

I see there's been a similar discussion in another thread, although as @Weins201 pointed out, that thread was meant to be for information regarding the gypsy's questions and how they affect initial stats.

So specifically regarding magic: now that we have elemental attunement, steering us (gently) towards specialising in a limited number of schools, I'm not so comfortable with being given a load of literal fire power as soon as I land in the world.

This is a personal point more than a suggestion there will be an overwhelming drawback, but for role playing reasons I default to water and air magic. To do so, I had to lock all the fire spells before starting to play (preserving my Exp) and wait to buy the basic water spell when I got to town.

Again, it's more of a niggling nuisance than a massive problem, but will probably lead to water being particularly neglected when the game is launched - when there are a lot of newcomers who don't have the prior knowledge to set themselves up for it, chances are they'll focus on fire since it's been handed to them, and by the time they want to explore something different, they find they've disadvantaged themselves by building attunement against the new school. Many will continue to be primarily fire mages with other skills bolted on.

A couple of suggestions then, feel free to discuss and to propose others:

- allow players to actively choose their 'combat' element; perhaps while they're in the void between floating island and Novia, they see a vision and are 'drawn towards' a colour/image representing the element. I'd like to have the option in any case, though I'm sure many will consider it unnecessary.

- toggling attunement to rise in one school, sets its opposite to actively reduce (not just decay super slowly as standard). This seems in keeping with the spirit of attunement, but obviously won't be popular with fire/ice type combinations who want the option of raising both, even with the associated penalty. Otherwise, give us a method to sacrifice our attunement, maybe some kind of tabula rasa ritual that purges our 'fire character'.

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For clarity it would be best if this thread sticks to the subject of competing magic elements - there are similar discussions to be had around weapon types and the link between virtue choice/starter templates, but they merit their own separate threads if anyone wants to kick one off

 

Yeah it has been brought up before to give more variety in the base skills players get, IF they actually give skills at launch.

Being forced to have Fire, Swords, and Ranged is pretty weak with all the possibilities out there.

I would so much like to be able to start out as a Earth or death mage so much more than Fire.

 

On the one hand, a new player doesn't need to be confronted with a huge array of options that mean very little to them. Basic templates make sense there.

But it's frustrating for those of us that already have some knowledge and experience to be trammelled so early.

 

Maybe have a question once truth is picked that asks what you feel most comfortably with. Maybe a stormy night for air. A mountainous landscape for earth. Graveyard or tomb for death. Volcanic island town for fire. Church or sanctuary for life. Icy caverns for water. And chaos can be delved into later as chaos chips are required

 

"As a mage you'll take fire and like it." - pretend quote written by me, myself, and I.
I agree, would be good to be able to specify which tree for a mage we would like to explore the most as possibly a subset question for people who pick truth or a series of "what would you enjoy more? Being in a cabin in the winter snuggled up to a fire or Sitting on the beach on a hot day? Answer attunes to water+fire or water+sun,etc. A few questions like that and a primary is chosen fire/water/sun/etc and then others are filled in a bit based on the primary.

 

Unfortunately the way the skill trees work not all trees are viable starting options.


For instance a moon Mage would be gimped right away since it contains no offensive spells. Etc.

 

I love this idea. As @Spoon says, not all skill trees are equally good for starting out, but for those that are good, this would be an interesting solution.

I imagine that melee warriors feel the same about getting a "wrong" weapon starting out on the path of courage. (Sword instead of a polearm, for example.) Similar questions could be used to narrow down the avatar's preference.

 

Even if you don't understand how the skills work, if you have some input to their selection, at least you'd be playing a character that has some kind of personal resonance with you. I was on the fence about this previously but the more is said, the more I'm in favour of it.

Not so great if archery remains the default for love, but maybe taming would make more sense for that, subterfuge could also be an alternative...
(dammit, I'm getting sidetracked on my own thread about magic!)

 

How about the other skill only lowers if the player has it set to lower.

 

If it actually does go down, that's fine by me. Currently I don't think it's possible to actively reduce skills and it takes a *very* long time before you'll notice any significant decay - which from a realism perspective, I can't argue with - hence my alternate suggestion of having to go through some process to remove the attunement which was previously developed. Even if it's difficult/expensive to do so, it would be good if we have a chance to.

 

I agree. For example, three questions to hone in or truth, love, or courage. Then three more questions to hone in on the specific leaning within that. But here's the thing. Some already struggle to relate a principal to a weapon type or character class already. How would it work to relate courage-courage to blades, courage-truth to bludgeoning, courage-love to pole arms, etc. etc.? It would be even more chaos

 

Chris did mention a mechanism at the trainers where you can learn to 'unlearn' at a more rapid rate. Costs gold and loses some of the XP. Not implemented yet, of course.

 

Honestly, I think this OP just reinforces why magic should be held back from the start, and introduced in a more balanced manner after we've entered the world. Magic in SotA is meant to be complex, it requires spells and reagents. These things should be more difficult to do than swinging a stick or stabbing with a blade - especially for someone new to this world, who comes from Earth (a non-magical planet).

As for competing magical elements, I think it would be better for the elements to overtake each other in a circle, so rather than pairing them all off, we have a cycle that will always include all of them.

 

Honestly just having the option to opt out of getting pre-set skills and getting an equivalent amount of exp with a free choice of where to start would fix most of the headaches involved with this kind of starting zone setup.

 

Earth, Air and Water should be available as alternate choices to Fire from the start. The way atunement is set up right now, it's a big thing if you don't start out with the element of your choice. Range and melee weapons don't have the same problem.

 

a simple solution would be to have a weapon/element/armor rack. The player must pick 2-3 trees to start with. 2 Weapon/Magic and armor type. no annoying i didn't want that and having to remake your character over again to only answer the questions again and hope you get what you want. I can see the youtube videos now of game play videos of people ranting how stupid it is that they can't pick what they want to play as and such. It doesn't matter if you can change and rebuild your character how you want to after, if the reviewer has a lot of followers and does a first impression video they wont know that.

 

I disagree strongly with your first sentence here.

In fact, I can't stand that entire line of design. It's elitist and simplistic.

Give us choices and we will choose. If I wanted the devs to make my choices for me in creating my character I'd play Halo.

 

Ultima has a history of moral choices determining your gameplay. This isn't taking choice away from you, it's just interpreting your actions saying that they effect your character in ways you didn't previously realized. Yes, we need more finess in the process, and more explanation in the outcome, but the underlying principle is sound and should not be discarded.

 

You are correct, M'Lady.

 

The principle is fine. I don't think anyone has said it isn't.

The implementation is awful, and it does remove choice currently. You're getting fire if you want a mage. Period. Whether objectionable to an individual player for thematic or practical (assuming there is some soft cap) reasons, your choice is made for you. Perhaps that's what you mean by finesse. I see it as more than that.