Naga symbol at the tower of the shuttered eye

That is an excellent point Lum. I have this gut-feeling that somehow, Egyptian symbolism and the like add more to SotA's lore and depth than a corporate logo ever could, but I can't help but wonder why I feel that way. Perhaps an Egyptian scholar would be just as put-off by ankhs as GimmeUOplz is by the logo. The only clear difference I can see is that more people will recognize Razer's logo than they will ancient cultural symbols, but that hardly defends my argument.

The questions that are running through my head are "if an Egyptian ankh can be blended into SotA lore without requiring that all Egyptian lore be included, why can't a corporate logo?" and "does cultural symbolism offer us anything that corporate symbolism doesn't, and vice versa?"

 

Thanks for sharing this comparison. Though I too get a bad vibe when I run through the tower and just think 'razer'..
This makes me feel a lot better about the inclusion of this logo as the possible 'antithesis' for the Avatar's virtue.
So cool!!
I kind of feel that the banner should not be neon green, let it look like an ancient symbol that maybe razer copied for their logo, rather than a clear duplicate of the company's trademark into the game. I feel that if the green was a bit darker and more natural looking, it might help quite a bit. Maybe give the snakes red dots for eyes or something too? Or rather than using banners, sculpt the snake symbol into stone, and give it detail like scales to bring the naga snakes to life!

That's all I'm coming up with. I agree with both sides of this argument. I like the symbolism in the lore and like seeing it in game, but I'd like it to feel more original and older than a stylized corporate logo.. so I think it could use an artist's touch.

 

I brought this up months ago and I find it really does dispel some of the suspension of disbelief for me. Sure they can say write up some really great lore and establish a proper reason for it being there but then you could do that for the golden arches and stick them on the side of a shop in Ardoris. But people will still just see a real life corporate logo instead of symbolism rooted in the history and world of New Britannia.

 

I'm like how do people have enough time to sightsee in those places, I'm so busy running for dear life I've yet to 'see' the banner.

But I thought it was neat when I heard about the evil CEO in game. Maybe after a bad day at work, some of his employees will enjoy it too? <see my siggy if this offends you.

 

Tsk, tsk, you should know better!

I like these ideas a lot. An exact copy of a RL logo - especially with such color scheme - doesn't blend in really well. I'm all for subtler nudges.

Like the silver square, the silver circle and the silver triangle, keys for the final room of the first Bard's Tale...

 

One of my favorite writers/storyrunners for television is Ronald Moore. He touched on the topic of shared cultural symbology a bit in the rebooted Battlestar Galactica. I'll try not to use too many spoilers (if you've never watched it, you really should) but at one point some characters hear a song in their head as a form of telepathic communication. That song is Bob Dylan's "All Along The Watchtower".

Bear in mind no one in this universe is from Earth - in fact the entire point of the show is the story of their attempts to find Earth which for them is a place of myth and legend. So logically, no one in that universe could have known Dylan's song.

Moore's justification was such:

There's some cultural allusions in SotA that are intentional (calling Novia elves "elves" instead of something different, when they are obviously not equivalent to what most people think of as elves) and many that aren't because we bring cultural context to everything we do.

 

Ankh/Dylan ...SotA/BSG...this is also the question running through my head...is a corporate logo different than icons of culture

 

The ankh is just a variation of a cross, btw, as is the virtue symbol.

The way I think of "elf" when thinking about elves in SotA is that a lot of folkloric concepts are embedded in everyday language. So in English, we have adjectives like "elfin" and "impish" and "dwarfish" and "titanic." If you have an "elfin" creature, why not call it an "elf"? If you have an "impish" creature, why not call it an imp? The more familiar versions of these creatures are modern creations anyway.

 

Haven't done the tower yet (been too busy grinding to survive places) but now I'm curious to run around it and see how plastered the symbol is. Sigh. Work go away so I can play sooner.

 

Maybe not the best way to get your point across.

 

Is this where i go to complain about red cups?

 

In which context do you make this statement?

 

Mr. DeBakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory. Ahh yes, Try Mr. Barnard; room 12.

 

There was some discussion about the ankh being originally from Egyptian culture. It was, but the cross is a common thing that was modified in different ways by different cultures, so even, for instance, the swastika, used in both Western Eastern culture, is just another form of a cross. A cross is just two lines crossing each other, and there's actually a lot of symbolism you can read into a plain cross if you wanted to (ie crossroads, four cardinal directions). The ankh is basically just a cross with a loop at the top instead of a straight line. Its also been referred to as the crux ansata and there's a Coptic version, and also a Gnostic version. The virtue symbol is a double loop (infinity symbol) and a line crossing each other.

The point was just to comment on how symbology works, and how different cultures might come to the same symbol through different means.

 

Me2. Also Lum replied that the symbol has its valid reason in the game. Being honest, i did not thought about product placement as i saw the logo for the first time. A constructive and fair discussion is important in every democracy, but as a backer i am a part of a big family, and at the end i gave my money for a dream and i don't claim the right to be the god of the project and decide whats allowed and what not. I gave my money Portalarium and eypecially RG, because i want my dream realized and i trust in him to have a final game design that bring back my childhood and the immersion of the Ultima series.

 

Glad you don't need glasses, or your glasses work well!

 

He came up with the symbology for his banner independently?... it's a trademarked logo man. What a coincidence that he, "independently", came up with a banner that advertises his real world company...

As for your first post, no one's saying that he payed off individual devs to put it in the game. It is however obvious that he did pay to get a trademarked logo inserted into the game. I don't think this had any place whatsoever in a crowd funded game, but in any game it would seem out of place. The fact that this is crowd funded and is just kind of a slap in the face imo.

People keep posting unrelated things to back up having a trademarked logo in sota. Such as the song that showed up I'm Battlestar. That song being in the show was not product placement and it did not advertise real world products through the show. THAT is the difference.

 

Your first post in this thread called me a whiner and said that my opinion didn't matter. Then quoted unrelated topics and passed off opinion as fact when it was clearly opinion. You then rounded off your post with an incredibly condescending and passive aggressive jab at me implying that it is the fault of people who want this game to be similar to UO that they still need more money.

You have hands down been the most disrespectful poster in this thread.

 

Lum already answered that quite clearly and you quoted it.

It is exactly the same leap of logic as saying that fictional characters in Britannia and New Britannia came up with the ankh for different purposes with no contact with Egypt. If you have zero objection to an Earthy symbol being re-purposed in Ultima before, it is hard to suddenly object to the exact same thing now.

FWIW, I haven't heard anyone complain that the new virtue symbol in SotA is the ethical hedonism symbol on Earth. If anything this should be more of a concern because arguably Lord British came up with the symbol, he is from Earth and he would be aware of the connotations of the symbol on Earth. I as a person don't have any moral objection to ethical hedonism (I am a dirty Libertarian), but it carries connotations into the game that I'm not sure if everyone is comfortable with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonism

 

Are you implying that the ankh somehow advertises for Egypt? Or that the new virtue system symbol offers product placement for hedonism? If not that falls into the category of "people posting arguments for a trademarked logo that have nothing to do with it"