Something wrong with EXP POOL and new players

last week i was contacted by a new player that has an issue with SKILLS levelling...

and i found there is very BIG ISSUE for new players... now i've the X 4 EXPERIENCE BONUS and i never SEE this problem.. but:

A NEW PLAYER (FROM LEVEL 5 to 8) needs 135/165 ADV POOL POINT to kill a Large Wolf (for spiders and bears is worse!)... but the Large wolf revenue is only 105 adventurer pool exp points...

this mean that a new player ... GAIN SKILLS just from 60/70% of fighting time (on a combat NPC scene).. for the other 30%40% time .. it was at ZERO Experience pool points.. and the SKILLS can't be increased! (i see this.. and using COMBOS and STACKS.. is the same thing)

well.. i've the 4X.... but a newbye... has something like 1/2 - 3/4 (NEGATIVE) ... and the experiences Pool BAR EMPTY ALL THE TIME if the initial 15000 points (why there are these points?... the experience must be created fighting.. not playing with a ball on first days of gaming) are gone joking with the gust ball on city like other old-players.

my suggestion:

POOLED PRODUCER EXP LOWERED TO 3000
POOLED ADVENTURER EXP LOWERDED TO 3000

INCREASE THE ADVENTURER POINTS OF ENEMIES WITH <110 REVENUE TO + 50%
(OR IN ALTERNATIVE... MAKE A 2X ADVENTURER BONUS FROM LEVEL 0 to 10 for newbyes...)

P.S. maybe on next release... REMOVE the 4X bonus to all players .. and add IT AGAIN when LEVEL is 10 or more... (just to do a real test)

P.P.S. a lot of players doesn't see the ISSUE because they are FROM THE FIRST DAY ON A GUILD or are ON PARTY WITH SKILLED FRIENDS ... but no all players are so much lucky... (FIRST ME before the 2X and 4X bonus)

Thank you to all developers that can "balance" this "starting" thing.. very important to keep a new player on SOTA.

 

I don't follow Gatsu. You need no exp to kill anything. You just need the skill to kill it.

New players need to turn off all skills and watch their exp rise per kill. Then they need to unlock a skill and watch it use exp per use. This exp use is more at higher levels of the skill and more if your Adv. pool is large (taking less uses to level but not less exp in total).

This game currently required a healthy amount of skill micro managing to build the Avatar you want.

 

Alternatively, the new player you spoke with could also do the available quests and get a massive amount of xp with minimal combat which should put the player in a good way to start with. Also, go to hidden vale and don't forget the quests there. Grey wolf is the T1 wolf that should be getting primarily attacked by a new player. The large grey wolf (assuming its that one you are referring to) is T2 so it is definitely going to take more to kill as skills and level are not high enough to drop it sooner.

But, as a primary magic user, i.e. no plate mail no melee, it is VERY hard to advance at early levels even with the 4x XP boost.

 

A new player doesn't KNOW quests.... BUG REPORTING... and maybe they not get the QUEST HAT... they PLAY THE GAME.... and i think that for example .. NORTH VALEWAY .. is the first place where a player GO to gain some gold (from VERY LOW LEVEL SKELETONS).. but again in this place, the ADVENTURER EXP POOL go to ZERO ... and on first levels... (from 1 to 7) the player are GAINING SKILL POINTS JUST on 50% of fighting time... (when enemies reach half life points.. the ADVENTURER POOL IS EMPTY... and SKILL CAN'T LEVEL-UP) this is for me a BIG ISSUE... because a newbye.. need to SEE the experience GAIN for all the fighting time... (maybe a veteran doesn't need this... but a new player... come on!)

example:

1) ZERO POOL
2) KILL A SCHELETON (NO SKILL ADVANCE BECAUSE THE POOL IS ZERO) ..
3) GAIN 88 POINTS FROM SKELETON DEATH...
4) ENGAGE SECOND SKELETON.. NICE THE SKILLS ARE INCREASING ... BUT WHAT!... when skeletons reach 40% of life.. . there is NO MORE SKILL ADVANCEMENT! (because killing a entry level skeleton requires something like 140 ADV POOL POINTS at level 2-5 and the players reach the ZERO POINTS at 60% of fighting...)

A newbye need to KILL 2 SKELETONS to GAIN the SAME SKILL LEVEl-UP of a player that HAVE the 4X bonus and kill JUST 1 SCHELETON.

Sorry for the uppercases .. but i'm very frustraded seeing new player leaving (or not playing) SOTA for this thing... (just saying : i will wait for the RELEASE... what kind of BETA is tested by ONLy 4X BONUS . or "Guilded" players?)

 

I agree that intro exp needs tweaking.

More importantly is that all players need a good guide on "whats going on behind the scenes" with exp pools.

 

Put on some light armour, learn how to sprint. Get some fire skills and kite elementals in wyrmsands with sprint and fire magic until your adventurer xp is full and then return to fight bandits/skeles after turning on all your other innates and glyphs.

 

I do get what Gatsu is getting at

"Why the heck can't new avatars just play without needing a degree in SotA behind the scenes math."

 

Is Gatsu Weins alt?

 

I've give for FREE to this player.. a leather ARMOUR +3 STR +2INT... Leggins +2 STR +2INT .. WOLF HAT +3 STR... WEAPONS AND MONEY... i say him how ADV POOL WORKS.. i say him how to COMBO the FIRE PUNCH WITH BLADE (to increase damage using the FIRE DAMAGE time).. all the things i NEVER RECEIVED when start playing.. and after that.. i can't see this player LEVELING NICE... fighting for a day to leveling just from level 2 to 5...

after that i've tried when he reached for HIS OWN level 6... to ADD he to PARTY and KILL THE SAME THINGS he killed on valeway... and for some MAGIC THING... hi level UP to level 9 on 20 minutes...and his ADVENTURER LEVEl WAS 1900! (WHATTT??? but i killed the same things he killed on SOLO all the day!)

QUESTION: the 4X BONUS (to max level reached on previous releases) is applied to all players after the WIPE?

 

You get the 4x bonus up to the XP level your avatar was before the wipe, in both Producer and Adventurer.

So if you have earned no XP before wipe then you get no 4x.

 

depends how many skills trained and unlocked

 

this mean that next month this player can LEVEL UP without issues... but maybe the 4X must be removed (from level 0 to 10) just to really understand how to better fix ADV POOL EXP points...

 

I think the point is that new players won't know that they need to do any of those. Their skills are all unlocked by default.

So the default behaviour for a new player who has not browsed through the forums before playing looking for a guide (and honestly, if I wanted an immersive and spoiler-free experience I wouldn't either) will leave them with no XP and a very poor first impression of the game.

 

So far Yes. This is so we can reach to the level we were at last more quickly.

I do agree that there needs to be more incentive at the beginning than what there is now. It can also get harder gradually and by that time the users will be more knowledgeable.( This will be worked on I am sure when they finish the tutorial )

NOTE: The Quest are very important to newbies or even in the beginning after a wipe and I am NOT referring too the Hat quest. I am talking about all the NPC's in "Soltown" that ask for things or need something and in the Hidden Vail.. These things need to be better pointed out how important it is to the newbie as a massive amount of XP is given to the player for all these quest.. I did not even know about it myself till I recently read this on one of "Themo lock" threads..

 

Yes that's how I understand the Op's concerns and yes at the moment he is right.. I was a newbie not that long ago but I am also Not afraid to ask thousand and one questions And everyone here was so Very nice and willing to help BUT not everyone is as easily drawn or open to ask as many questions as I did on these forums and to those more forum shy newbies ( If you will ) should be rewarded greatly at first to encourage them to continue. at least to level 10 on there innate skill.

 

I just did this very thing. I hadn't done any combat since the skills have changed over to use based. It didn't leave me with a "poor" first impression, it is a game and this is just how it works currently. It left me thinking that the learning curve for experience and combat obviously need to be covered in a tutorial quest before entering New Britannia and it did leave me wondering how much fun I felt it was to micromanage the skill drain on my adventurer experience at the beginning.

I just pumped 30 hours into the game with a new character without the 4x boost and I made it to the following:

Blades:
Blade Combat: 58
Blade Speed: 33
Vital Points: 38
Mastery: 32

Light:
Swift: 36
Acrobatics: 51

Life:
Attunement: 17
Reach & Power: 17
Benefit Blessing: 14

Tactics:
Healthy: 31
Armour Preservation: 27
Weapon Preservation: 26
Train Strength: 24
Heavy Lifter: 25
Offhand Def: 29
Offhand Attk: 28

Focus:
Awareness: 28
Train Int: 21

I have no idea if 30 hours for those stats is good or really poor because it is my first time with the new combat system and managing the gains/xp intake. I was also messing about with other things lightly, not just combat. Was it a little boring to grind this out? Yeah. Was it a little more of a shock than a finished game, sure. Was it impossible? No.

 

It is true: Turning off training for other skills to level up a particular skill is the only way to make noticeable progress in the skill being trained. This means micromanagement of every single skill you want to train.

I remember Chris saying once that we should just play and not think about skill levelling and decay. This suggestion seems to contradict reality

 

@AvatarAcid I get what you mean. Well, you and I have been here since 2013, so I don't think we count as "new players" to be honest

In any case, I did what I thought the average Joe would do: left everything unlocked, bought as many skills I could afford at a trainer and went adventuring.
I did a few quests too, which I believe are a net XP gain, but after I while I barely had any XP in my pool. After a few weeks (which means about 30 hours of gameplay to me) two small spiders could still kill me in North Valeway.
According to some, you should be able to achieve your first Grandmastery within one hour with the current system.

I agree that a better tutorial/introduction would be beneficial - though I would personally get rid of the micro-management and mandatory mix-maxing.

Exactly. I don't think this game should be about spreadsheets and calculations and finding the best formula for XP per minute.
Also, yes, I don't think the game will launch with the system as it is right now. I am sure it will change, and I hope for the better.

Finally, I am a firm believer that single-player offline should be just as important and enjoyable as the online counterpart of the game.
Some players will want to play SotA alone and offline only. They won't be able to "ask around" or receive help from experienced players, or even group with anyone. Yet the game has a single-player offline mode, and that shouldn't be "frustration mode".

 

I'm up for watching an end to end non-cut video of that one Where is it?

 

I have had an account for years but I have not really played or read these forums until now, so I think I count as a new player.

I can honestly say as s new player I did not even know a skill could be locked, that skills decayed, or what a skill pool was.. I am only now looking into these things and threads like this make me think I'm playing the game "wrong".

Now I am coming from UO which is a spreadsheet based level system where you need to be very knowledgable about the inner workings of the systems, and be good at math in order to achieve anything.

It was my impression that SOTA was supposed to be more like old school pre AOS UO where you could just play and not constantly worry about the math?

My take away is that the game ether needs to change to be require less "micromanagement", or else there needs to be better toturials and manuals (wiki) explaining everything.