Deeds don't decay: That's a problem

So you're concerned about how it impacts deeds purchased with real cash?

 

Partly.

But I'm more concerned that there will be this huge pool of deeds filed under "inactive" and yet we'll still be pushing new deeds via the lottery/auction and the add-on store. Endlessly piling up deeds into the economy making ownership of a home far from limited.

You would agree that the game is supposed to have limited housing, correct?

 

I'm on the fence on this one... I see BDF's point that over time as players leave that once had deeds... more and more land opens up but no one can claim it since there will be no new deeds issued.

I know if I purchased my deed by one the real-world cash methods (pledge or addon store) I'd be really pissed if my deed expired after I was gone for six months to a year.

On the other hand, would it be unreasonable for an in-game gold purchased one to expire if it wasn't used for a long period of time? (I just don't think there will be many of these to make a difference.)

 

But ownership of land is different than ownership of a deed. A deed in the game isn't a right to a particular parcel of land, just a pay-in that's a right to claim any parcel of land.

As for the value of cash bought deeds, if someone can always resell their deed to a merchant at full value, they'll never be a need to resell your deed to another player. So, we'll have the same barrier to purchase a deed that we do now at the start of the game. The value of buying a deed with cash now is that you get it faster and without the gold input. It will be the same months into the game. Also, too, then, the value of buying a deed with cash will be that you'll get it faster and without the gold input.

Its true, they'll be an ever-growing supply of deeds, which is strange from an economic standpoint. But I'm not sure how much it will actually affect the economy.

 

Oh, yes, but I guess I'm not quite up to date on what they were planning with the auction/lottery.

I'm kind of thinking about it based on the current model, where you can buy a deed from an NPC merchant.

 

I'm confusing everyone. This isn't about "no one being able to buy more deeds".

Let me see if I can make this more clear.

This is about there being so many deeds, it's no longer a problem to get a deed. It's about the deeds being so common, "Hey I left that game and I'm never going back, do you want my deed?" that basically everyone has a deed that wants one. This is about moving from less than 10% of the total population having a deed, to much more than that (let's say 50%).

The core principle of deeds in this game is that they're special, they're limited, they're worth something. If that's no longer true, how do they fund future episodes? Does the game basically become housing instances? Do the people that paid $1000's feel like they were screwed over?

I don't think this is going to happen overnight. It's going to take a very slow erosion over years. But it's something that could be easily avoided by simply making deeds purchased with in-game gold have a shelf life based on inactivity. If you own a deed and go inactive for a period of time, the game should reclaim the deed and give it someone else that IS active. Why? Because that's better than making a whole new deed and risking massive amounts of players coming back into the economy in the future and using their deeds - thus devaluing the deed market.

 

Sorry didn't mean to make it just about not getting deeds. I do get your point... But I don't think Port plans on releasing that many more deeds so I think the pool of deeds from people who buy them with in game gold will be very small compared to the pledges. Darkstarr stated in one of the videos recently that what you see in the addon store is it. So the number of in game deeds will be limited by the number they sell... Hence a finite total really.

I think the bigger long term issue will be pledge/store deed owners leaving and not returning ... That will be a larger selection of players than the in game bought group.

 

.... I know this maybe a bit off topic but if players start leaving at some point places will become more and more ghost town like... Especially if there are no new deeds. Do you think it would be possible to retain the look of a lot if it goes into rears or vacated? This might at least keep the feel of occupied towns. Just a thought and prolly not for this thread.

 

Seems like a good idea to me. I know in Rats Nest I have the advantage of having all row lots, so it always feels like it's lived in even though next to no one is there currently. The Ghost Town thing is something that the entire game needs to watch out for though, not just POTs. It's really in Portalarium's best interest to find multiple ways to keep everyone interested in all the towns.

 

I'm not really seeing an issue here. With each episode release we'll likely see many players returning to the game, each year, bringing their deeds back into circulation. We'll have doubling of available land, we'll likely have many towns completely uninhabited, so releasing more and more deeds shouldn't be a problem.. .we currently only have 58,000 backers... and how many available lots?

 

In another thread I talked proactively about this very subject, and the idea was resoundingly thumped. I offered to eat my post if POTS did not become ghost towns.

 

If they take away the NPC option that does put alter things some. It still doesn't make the deed much of an economic control though. It's the lot, not the deed, that is the commodity.

As long as the number of deeds is not connected to the number of lots there is no issue. If there is an unused deed does that mean there is a lot that is unclaimed? Or is it possible to have an infinite amount of deeds not in use?

Is the concern that there is no possible way to have a stable deed resell market? Because that's going to be next to impossible frame due to the micro vs macro availability.

The rare and limited aspect is the lot not the deed.

Think of the in game scenarios when you attempt to sell a deed.

1: abundant vacant lots - deed availability is limited price sky rockets, plummets if abundant.
2: no vacant lots - no one would purchase the deed without a guaranteed lot to use the deed for fear of decay.

If they remove easy access to new deeds then there is little to no point in having a deed at all.

 

The reason for concern is understandable. Limited lots and limited deeds with the ability to hold/hoard deeds is a bad design. Where I differ is the solution.

The lot is limited. If the deed is limited also then it's redundant. So either attach the deed to the lot or make the deeds abundant.

 

Right now from everything Port has said, the deeds are limited more so than the lots.

 

An auction for deeds is the only solution required to prevent an excess of deeds. Their value is not fixed. Based upon the amount of gold in the economy the gold purchased deed values will adjust.

Deeds obtained through pledges are tax free. Over time this will be a huge value added.

Deeds purchased via add on store are increasing. Village lots sell at a substantial premium. Row lots sell fairly easily. Town and City lots are not selling at a premium currently. I believe people would rather spend the $900 or more on a tax free pledge deed.

Once pledges expire the remaining store deeds will increase in value. Gold purchased deeds in game will adjust based upon inflation.

This is a case where the player proposed solution is worse than the possible problem. Give the Developers time to work on the economy and provide tweaks after release.

 

Well there's nothing currently to suggest most wouldn't become ghost towns. Thankfully that point has been made very clear and the developers appear to have a plan to help support POTs.

 

they already have a system they want where after a while if you have simply not logged in and played for "N" period of time, your lot and home and everything go into your inventory or bank and your lot is freed up. those players who do play and have deeds could easily claim that lot. The fact that deeds are plentiful because you can buy them with in game gold and only have to pay taxes on them when you have claimed a lot keeps things a simple and elegant design. Just having a deed doesn't need to have decay unless you want it to be a gold sink where all that hard work and time is gone... I would see that as a waste of a system to have. if you have saved up the large amount of gold it will take, once the economy is more balanced by the time the final wipe happens, you shouldn't want that item to decay and have to re-buy the item to be able to reclaim a lot.

The # of lots are limited by the number of towns in game and we have been told that not every player will have a lot or a home... Just the way it will be... but as more content is added via future episodes there will be more free lots and then more ppl will have homes as the world increases in size. If they keep that system of ppl who dont play for however long in use so that it frees up lots that aren't being used because the player is inactive for too long, this would also prevent ghost towns as well as most active players from having homes.

 

I would have no problem if the solution returned the gold to the player when a deed was removed from their inventory. No problem at all. The issue is that deeds remain in the economy and are never removed. We have plenty of gold sinks, we have zero deed sinks.

 

don't quote me on this but I think they have made it that if you are not logged in after a certain amount of time your place disappears and deed and all the houses contents goes into your bank that is if you have one of the non degrading deeds. I have read a few things on it and that is what ive gathered but as I said don't quote me on that

 

if the gold was returned to you that would be fine.. .unless it is a deed froma pledge rewards obviously.. those need to stay special cause so many of them are tax free ones....