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Is a discussion of the impact of economic issues in the game bad?

Discussion in 'Release 26 Feedback Forum' started by Keyman, Feb 2, 2016.

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  1. Ultima Codex

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    And it's entirely possible that, for the OP, it is indeed a fact that they are exorbitant. It's a subjective thing, remember?

    There are two parts to this statement. To the first part, I'm not as convinced as you are that it was meant to shut down opposing views (and if it was intended in that manner, clearly it did not have the desired effect). To the second part, it's not really your place to say what does and doesn't have a place in any post, regardless of its position in a thread. That burden rests with the moderators, and ultimately with FireLotus.

    You're right in your first sentence. But honestly, I didn't read the OP in the same way as you; the thoughts and concerns expressed in the OP are little different than my own thoughts were nearly three years ago, when I too (privately) lamented the fact that I just couldn't spare the money to afford a house in-game because the prices were so high. Even the $125 I pledged initially took me two months to pay off...and it was probably six months before my wife forgave me for what she regarded as a frivolous purchase.

    Now? My circumstances are different (new job, more pay, etc.) and I've topped up to a Knight-level pledge. Were the Shroud Kickstarter to start tomorrow, I'd probably jump in at Citizen level, and then upgrade to Knight in the months/years thereafter. But having been in the situation where paying off a $125 credit card bill was a multi-month prospect, I still sympathize with those who would dearly like a house in a tax-free lot but just cannot afford the price tag to get one, and so are faced with the prospect of maintaining a house on a taxed lot...and wondering how they are going to keep up the momentum of acquiring sufficient gold daily to do so.

    It's important, then, that nobody in this thread attempt to negate what others are saying. Those who have large pledges (myself included) should be careful not to dismiss the very real financial and practical concerns of those who could barely afford a small pledge, and those who have small pledges should be careful not to go all Occupy on those who have large pledges.
     
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  2. Cinder Sear

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    So this is a discussion about being poor all of a sudden?
     
  3. HoustonDragon

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    When you're discussing how real life money transactions affect game development, then personal financial considerations are a consideration. Some folks have more disposable income than others for all sorts of reasons.
     
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  4. Cinder Sear

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    So the OP states exorbitant fees within the game, and mentions specifically housing (ok) crafting... (hmmm how? we gather our stuff.. or make friends who will give us stuff) resurrecting (this one seems totally out to left field)...

    I too agree the way things are worded in the OP and further on in the thread are geared to cause a response in people, and it got one. I am very poor as well, and actually joined way back in R13, and because of payment plans, I too was able to scrape my way up to something half-decent in my opinion. Now, that means, I do have a row lot deed, and I did that over many months. That is due to getting in the game at the right time, R13. So very long ago.

    I think a lot of the problems that us 'poor' players see about these 'rich' players could have been mitigated by joining earlier.. right place, right time. Payment Plan. But really, besides storage, what does the player owned house really do for someone?
     
  5. Ultima Codex

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    Well, for one, having a house is the first step to having an in-game vendor (if memory serves, commission-free vendors unlock at the Citizen level). For someone who wants to really dive into the crafting aspects of the game, and to then sell their wares to other players in the online mode, having this NPC vendor is of significant importance; it allows you to sell your stuff even when you aren't logged in.

    Which could be what the OP is on about with the mention of crafting, by the way. (I'm not sure about the resurrecting thing.)
     
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  6. Cinder Sear

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    I just use the owl's head and ardoris vendor's, it's much easier to move product on there... :) I wanna drive a Lamborghini too, but I settle for my Honda, and don't complain much.
     
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  7. Ultima Codex

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    I should have clarified: to have your vendor sell your crafted wares to other players, rather than having to be logged in to do likewise.

    Which I gather is kind of a big deal for MMORPG fans, especially those who have previous experience with e.g. Ultima Online.
     
  8. Cinder Sear

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    Are you saying that when I'm logged out, that the public vendor does not sell my things? That was not the case every release since.. please clarify.
     
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  9. Cinder Sear

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    The public vendor DOES sell my stuff while I'm offline. The vendor is also in a more convenient location and I use two. This is by far more convenient than having my own vendor that I'd had to pay over $1000 USD to have.. so I think your point is moot.

    edit: ok, the price of the vendor pledge is $550 USD, so correction! But that is still about $800 Canadian Bucks... poor me, has to rely on Public Vendors, but I am in a way better position than most private vendors, I reckon.
     
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  10. Ultima Codex

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    Oh, the public vendor does sell stuff (as far as I know; I'm a single-player type through and through, and don't really pay attention to that stuff). But IIRC, the public vendor charges commissions (or is planned to). Some people prefer to have their own shop (this is also why lot placement is a concern), and the NPC vendors that come with higher pledge levels are commission-free.

    I'd also urge against solipsism here; the public vendor approach works for you, and you are satisfied with it. It does not follow that the same will hold true for other players, or that utilizing the public vendor will satisfy how they desire to engage with that portion of the game.
     
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  11. Cinder Sear

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    the irony :)
     
  12. Spoon

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    Which part?
    If you mean less toxic than other gaming sites regarding deviant opinions? Then yes.
    However that is a general rule, in the topic you refer to though yea I agree. Most posters in that topic was way out of line and I don't think it was called for to single you out for other people's comments.
    It just went from 12 pages to 9 though so I think the mod squad is on that.

    But again bad behavior like that is much more common in other gaming sites. Which doesn't mean it doesn't exist here.
     
  13. Ultima Codex

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    [​IMG]
    There's a lot of headdesking going on right now, let's just say.
     
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  14. rune_74

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    I'm not at all happy with how certain posters in that thread attacked me. I explained myself many times and to some that wasn't good enough and a character assassination ensued with nothing done about it.
     
  15. Black Tortoise

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    Im having a crazy difficult time doing to most basic things in this game, and I have a nice house, lots of pledge gear, all the works. As people are saying, these things do not make you an elite player. Someone is even pointing out that using the public merchants in the right places is way more beneficial than having a private vendor.

    People simply believe its going to be harder because they havent pledged, without any evidence. I could rattle on and on (and I have, this and other threads) about how hard this is for little newbie me, and you wouldnt listen. You just want to believe you should get all the pretty pledge stuff without paying for it, or that we who have helped fund the game shouldnt get what we have. All this stuff is basically just pretty - none of my pledge gear has helped me stay alive, I just die over and over and over again trying to figure out where the heck to get a tanning knife or figuring out how my subterfuge skills actually benefit me. The pledge gear is pretty (and I love it!) but it doesnt make me more L337 than anyone. The only elite players are those who can play a lot. It really just appears like you see the neighbor kid with candy youve never had, and automatically think your life sucks worse than hers does.

    Thats all it is: really pretty. This game isnt about housing, housing is a feature. This game isnt about selling wares, thats a feature, and you have features available to facilitate that to you. There is nothing you are missing on player start that prevents you from fully enjoying every aspect of the game. If every person in the game just had a castle, theyd still be the same exact player. I have zero space in my house to store belongings (no chests, etc), it just holds all the pewter cups I stole and my radio and my empty basement.

    None of this is a complaint. I am just amazed that people are upset that they dont get free stuff without making any significant contribution to support the game. Besides, its been out for 3 years. Ive been donating $5 here, $10 there, maybe $50 a few times, over 2.5 years I think. Im sure you have spent those amounts on things like beer, movie tickets, netflix, doritos, burgers, other video games, magazines, yoga classes, whatever. Over the years, it adds up to whatever the heck you consider your hobby. Youve simply just chosen to spend your extra dollars on other things. If you had chosen SoTA as your primary hobby, you'd have a virtual house and a merchant (maybe not a castle, but if everyone had a castle, thatd just be silly).

    Anyone on this forum can afford an internet connection, so you have enough money to shift your choice of personal luxuries and/or hobbies around to whatever you want the most. The next time you buy a bag of potato chips, ask yourself: Do I want to eat some empty calories for momentary pleasure, or do I want to get a set of artisan crafting tools on SoTA?
     
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  16. Spoon

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    Yea agreed had it been me I wouldn't have been as calm as you were. Haven't gone through the topic again though, I gave up on that one on page three and never want to return.

    But while I fully agree that most of the pile-on was out of line you still can't expect instant moderation. Such takes time, especially if they need to involve a site rep. But since the mod squad removed some 3-5 pages worth of posts within 24h I think that is a very decent response given their pay and numbers and I do think there has been some serious reprimanding done. So saying 'nothing' has been done might feel accurate but isn't.


    If you think they missed something in the chaos then report it again or escalate it using the existing protocol.
    Mods are humans to and how they handle things will vary. So usually when big FUBARs happen the pow wow of multiple mods usually result in way too much moderation when each one remove what they don't like /or/ it results in too little moderation since they wait on the site rep and don't want to step on each other's toes too much.

    In the history of this site it's usually the latter. They close the topic but are lenient on letting posts remain.

    While if you have a topic with only a few out of order stuff then then it is usually more moderated since it will be a single mod acting on it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
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