What in this game need to be improved and what can be done about it.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by blaquerogue, Dec 19, 2015.

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  1. SmokerKGB

    SmokerKGB Avatar

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    So you're looking for what's wrong, oh ok... As I said before, this game is under construction, and I guess I follow the Dev's more closely than most because from your OP the points you think are "wrong" have already been addressed...

    Loot for example, player made items will be coming to the loot table, right now if a player tries to sell something on a public vendor (for far more than it's worth), when the sale ends it's purchased by the game at game pricing. This is one way the items will make it to the loot table for others to claim, and sell or use or scrap... You were saying the loot was worthless and needed to change, well it's still under construction. When the loot system is revisited, I'm sure new things will be installed, such as monster looting your dead corpse (not full loot, but taking an item for the game)... selling crafted items to an NPC is another way of getting items into the loot table... The Dev's have already talked about it publicly, but have been working on other things...

    Resources, I think you or someone else said it needs to be bumped up quite a bit, well I'm a resource gatherer and the Dev's have stated that they don't want "mass production", so they have curtailed it quite a bit, but with the use base system I have found that when my "meticulous gathering" reached about 20, I started to get a bump in yields, plus I can now enter 4 skull areas, which yield more extra items for crafting...

    Crafted items being the Best in the game, well, ya...They've always said that because all the other games put the best items as loot, so crafters are left in the cold... I'm glad this game puts crafters first, and that they have a plan to put those same items into the loot... You think its wrong, I think its right...

    Next, its about over achievers V under achievers (or ppl with lots of time, and ppl who don't have the time), well, sorry dude, if you don't have the time to put in to the game, you're just going to have to play at your own pace... This has never been a design issue, and coding won't help, your just going to have to wait until you get "good", sorry... Or are you wanting a stand on macroing your skills while you sleep?

    You think the crafting is bad, I think its great... It only uses fuels, and that I can afford, I still have 15k left over after buying fuels, besides as my skill goes up, I fail less, so it looks to me like its working as planned...

    Societal meeting place, that's an MMO for you...

    Yes, maybe you should try some of those other games, you may appreciate this one more... or not...
     
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  2. Fox Cunning

    Fox Cunning Localization Team

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    Regarding the idea of player-crafted items ending up in "loot tables": I like the concept, but is this actually going to happen? I don't see how it could, if monsters cannot loot players. And if they could, players (with one exception) would revolt.
    Also, in some cases (such as the example mentioned by @Bubonic ) it does not make any sense to find a player-crafted item sealed inside an ancient chest.

    CRAFTING

    On the topic of crafting, it is currently a nightmare.
    Every single bush and scrub is currently guarded by a horde of fast respawning hostiles, and you'll get 1 (one!) resource out of them.
    The AI is still heavily under development, so everything attacks you on sight at the moment, but I understand that is not the goal for the final product.
    However, if we are here to test the pre-alpha and one wants to test crafting, just crafting, they can't. We are all forced to fight our way to... one cotton fibre!

    I appreciate that the game has to be balanced yet, but the disparity is too huge at the moment.
    Some people can make hundreds of magical armour pieces in a few days, others can barely make a pair of regular gloves in a week.
    Effectively, playing this test version often feels like a chore.

    CHARACTER PROGRESSION

    The use-based progression is a step in the right direction, but it still feels quite "innatural".
    The current design encourages behaviours that I feel are bad.

    First, it encourages/forces players to use skills they don't need to use, or at least when they don't need to. This is because they are required in order to access the useful ones, or just because of the shunned decay.

    Secondly, the way to grandmastery is nothing but a grind.
    You can craft thousands of regular arrows and hone your blacksmithing and carpentry skills that way, but are those arrows useful? It costs a lot of money (fuels, kits, ingredients), time (one iron ore in a whole vein) and pain (dozens of wolves and spiders guarding that single iron ore vein, and they respawn about as soon as you kill them).

    ECONOMY AND BALANCE

    Lastly, it's ok that the best weapons will be player-made, but is there a use for everything else? Can I go adventuring with a regular iron sword? Will a group of players accept me in their party when I am not clad in shiny magic armour?
    Same concept applies to skills: am I even remotely useful if I am not a GrandMaster in a dozen skills?

    At the moment, the answer to all those questions is: no.
    Repairing regular weapons and armour, or just replacing them costs about as much as what you gain by using them.
    And if you are new to the game and starting out as a crafter, you will file for bankrupcy very soon. Players who have been crafting for a while will sell better stuff for less.

    THE FIX

    And I'm not talking about recreational drugs :) I'll just play by the OP's rules and try to propose one single fix for all of the above.

    Make room for everyone by introducing specialisations instead of decay!

    If I specialise as a healer, sure I'll be a one-trick pony for quite a while, but I know a party of adventurers will still like to have me around.
    If everyone can specialise in everything given enough time, that defeats the purpose of specialisation, and deters new players from even trying out the multiplayer aspect of the game once it's been running for a couple months.
    So if you choose not to specialise you will be good at many things, but a specialist should still be better than you in that specific field. Always. And you don't need decay for that.

    This can also work for crafting by introducing sub-specialisations. You can be a GM tailor and craft the best Cloth Armour of Strength, but someone else with just as much experience can instead craft the best Leather Gloves of Agility.

    Now, how to help new players? Make them feel useful, give them a role, a goal.

    It seems that the current design is to have low level crafters provide materials to higher level crafters. Good idea, but right now new players cannot gather enough resources, and high level crafters are at the moment also high level adventurers (problem: lack of specialisation), so they have better access to those resource nodes (problem: scenes crammed with hostiles just for the sake of it).

    Low-level resources in low-level areas should be easily accessible, but at the same time offer no advantage to higher level players.
    A GM blacksmith should find it more convenient to buy wooden poles from a low-level carpenter than go there and cut down trees himself.
    High-level resource nodes should not offer the same resources as the low-level ones, at all. So our GM miner would have loads of gold and rare gems, but GM blacksmiths would still have to buy iron and copper from low-level miners - that should be cheaper, but still needed.
    At the same time, a new player starting out as a woodsman should not be forced to fight every single wolf, bear and spider in the scene just to obtain two logs of wood.

    Also, specialisations would allow for UNIQUE CHARACTER BUILDS. Not all GrandMasters would be the same!
    You could be GM in Blades and specialise in daggers, but only handle a two-handed sword with some difficulty.
    Or you could be a GM Cook who specialises in vegetable dishes but is not great at cooking meat.
    Or a GM Life Mage who specialises in burst healing but is so-so at curing poison, diseases and other ailments.
    Or a bit of everything, but a specialist will be better than you in his/her specific field.


    P.S.: Just to be clear, there are many things I love about this game, and I think it will be great. I am not mentioning them here because this thread is about things that are currently... not as great. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
  3. Jordizzle

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    In my opinion what needs to be improved the most is combat. Combat needs to look flashier with better animations, better special effects, and sound effects. Black Desert Online's combat alone sets it apart from many mmo's purely because of how pretty it is to fight something. I'm not saying SOTA needs to be as good as BDO, but it does need to look and sound better than it does now.
     
  4. Moiseyev Trueden

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    The did specify that there were some items that would be better than what crafters would be able to create, but that they were quest specific items. Not sure if that means it only works at a specific point in time, vs. a specific enemy/boss, or what. I do agree that its a GREAT concept to try a completely player crafted world, but the reality is I just don't see that paying off in the long run. It does make a bit of sense to be able to equip yourself with the vest out there prior to adventuring, but like you've said, that also kinda kills motivation to go out.
     
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  5. amaasing

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    I would like for the game to level with the player (with an option to turn that off for those who enjoy fighting through a area that is way over their level). This leveling should be for both monsters/enemies and resources. Today, most new content doesn't allow the player any opportunity to explore the new areas since you are mobbed and killed after a few minutes of entering. I would love to explore more, get to know all the new areas, have more of a chance to test for bugs, but can't since I am busy running through scenes and healing myself just trying to stay alive. And when I am lucky enough to kill something and get to that resource I am eyeing, I can't gather it unless I attempt to do so with about 50 tries - and by then I am being mobbed again. And I don't want to go through these scenes with a group either. I want to play when I want to play, enjoy all of the great content at my pace, and not be concerned about who is online or not online.
     
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  6. blaquerogue

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    well im level 60 my meticulous gathering is beyond 20, so i think that when i reach higher levels in meticulous gathering i should be able to collect more than 3 or 4 of a resource, i believe your right when i was level 20 i did see a slight increase in meticulous, but it was still far and in between before i collected meticulously again. Things like that need to be fixed, when i kill a creature and skin it then go to a tree, the creature should not instantly respawn, interrupt me again, kill it again and respawn within the time i i am hacking at the tree. Stuff like that needs to be fixed, it happens quite a lot in Spectral foothills, and also in west ravenswood, so things like that need to be adjusted, maybe they dont know its respawning that fast, i dont know? The way things are set up one cannot play just a melee fighter and survive, especially against a mage PVP that also need to be balanced.

    On an ending note i understand this is pre alpha, but its been quite some time they have been working on this and small things as mentioned above are chasing people away from the game itself, maybe not you, but there are others that its effecting, it becomes boring killing a million wolves for leather especially for the lower level people that can only fight in south valeway or west ravenswood, too much of the same stuff over and over. I would like to see them mix up stuff a little better maybe make a pact to have one new creature per release. Loot definitely need some fixing.

    I think one of the main things you are missing is that these are not just my concerns but others as well. What i posted in the opening statement was things i heard others talking about as well as some of my own, i remember what it was like being low level. So far what you posted up there is "I see no problems all is well and fine" that is your opinion and you are quite entitled to it. There really is no need to post here if you feel there is nothing wrong with it. You and I just dont see eye to eye, i accept that, but there are others besides me posting in here what they think needs to be fixed, why your so fixated on me i have no idea? Because i posted my thoughts? We all have a right to our own opinions, and i dont single you out when i disagree. I think we all know here that you think there is nothing wrong, good! Enjoy the game then.
     
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  7. blaquerogue

    blaquerogue Avatar

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    Hell yeah Black Desert is a good go to to see what other cool things can be done to this game *its coming out this year in the states last i heard!! I cant wait!
     
  8. blaquerogue

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    Heres something else that absolutely need to be fixed hands down when i close out my work bench all items i was using should not be highlighted! I was trying to destroy my ingot molds that were at 0, i spent four hours crafting had 1k in ore and ingots and all of it was destroyed! It was an accident that never should have happened!!! I just wasted 4 hours or more of my life on this game! There should be a warning "are you sure you want to destroy (all these items!) Now im really pissed at this game!! Stupid stuff like that should not happen even if im stupid for not looking at it closer! Way too much to lose because of a mistake!! (you do realize how long it took to gather all that crap!! Im so pissed at this game right now for not having a safety net! Hell i play casino games online and if i bet over 1k it asks me to am i sure i want to spend that much!
    that may have been the straw to break the camels back, i may just lay down the game until next wipe because of that i wasted soooooo much time gathering all that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
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  9. Elwyn

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    Have you tried it since R25? They fixed it so that it usually "clears the slate" on the left side of the crafting interface. There are times that it still leaves things highlighted on the left side, but this is a big improvement.

    I'm still worried about hitting the salvage button with a non-scrap weapon, though. The only difference between salvage and repair is the repair kit. And I don't think you can just stack up five of them and keep hitting repair, you have to use them one at a time, which leaves the shiny, candy-like Salvage button highlighted between repairs.
     
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  10. mercster

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    Good thread. That is all.
     
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  11. blaquerogue

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    LOL apparently they forgot to fix my character! Yeah it happened last night when i posted it, im still sorta mad, im just going to change my crafting career for the time being! until i get that much again.

    I was Ganked by SOTA!! "I forgot how bad it was to be ganked!" SOTA made me humble last night!
     
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  12. Sold and gone

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    I think they only have a couple people staffed at the moment and the majority of people are on vacation. FYI. I know my town is Fubar right now but I do not expect a fix until after the 28th.
     
  13. Logain

    Logain Avatar

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    I'd be willing to chip in with a bit of ore to soften the blow for you. Was it iron, copper, or something different?
     
  14. blaquerogue

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    I appreciate it, my friends helped me replace what i lost. So i can get back to crafting stuff again. I really appreciate it though! Thanks
     
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  15. Elwyn

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    Hey, I lost about 40ish ingots (only iron and copper, fortunately) and artisan tongs (thank goodness we had spares in R24) a few weeks ago when deleting a broken mold. They've now made the simplest possible fix to significantly reduce the problem, so I feel a lot better.

    And FWIW, I re-read the pledge rewards lists... looks like we only get ONE artisan tool (of your choice) when go-live happens. I've decided I want most or all of the Prosperity tools anyhow.
     
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  16. Gramps

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    Combat system bothers me. Why when I select a target as a Mage/Melee and cast a spell that is placed on the ground I lose my target. I always try to cast on the target to place it but I guess I miss and lose target. I am one of those that uses the mouse for everything. I never use the keyboard. In my opinion you should never loose your target unless it gets out of range or you choose another mob.
    Another complaint is that my idea of Auto Attack is if a mob hits or bites you, your avatar turns around and smacks the crap out of that mob instead of just standing there like a deer caught in the head lights of a car. I don't know how many times I have died due to my guy just quits fighting and I have a hell of a time getting him to start fighting again. Hit the T everyone says. Why the hell should I have to do anything ? Just quit loosing the target and remember the mob isn't dead and keep fighting.
    I know they are trying to keep people from botting and macroing but we as players can police that. I know when A guy is botting or macroing. Turn that guy in! After all he is the guy that is pissing me off because they are making it hard on this old man to play. Please get rid of that stupid T to make your guy fight when he refuses too.
    Yeah ! get off my lawn you punk a__ kid !
     
  17. Lord_Darkmoon

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  18. rune_74

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    Interesting, I never saw this thread before.

    I guess with the new release schedule we can no longer use the "this is just pre-alpha" because it is going live in July.
     
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  19. agra

    agra Avatar

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    Defenders of the faith will continue to use "but but" or "this is just" excuses to defend bad design decisions, forever. Been that way since 1995, I don't see it changing any time soon.
    From what I've seen over the past 20 years in this genre, once players are emotionally invested, and have publicly shown their support, they are extremely unwilling to change their mind or apply critical thinking or logical assessment.
    Hubris is a cruel master. :cool:
     
  20. HairballHacker

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    I am like you in terms of what we want to do or not do in-game. Let's party up some time.

    And I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of intolerance on these forums; not that I feel I have ever been the target of it, but I've seen in.

    To the OP: your concerns are valid IMO. Hope for the best is the best we can do.
     
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