Setting a Price for Iron and Copper Ore

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Womby, Feb 14, 2016.

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  1. Dumdidum

    Dumdidum Avatar

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    So far this game has no mechanism that keeps people hunting and killing, and therefor wasting equipment needed to keep crafters busy.
    Prices will, i assume, plummet fast and hard after everyone has had their first set of equipment crafted.
     
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  2. Womby

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    Hunting and killing is the primary method for acquisition of adventurer XP that is used to skill up, so the demand should continue for some time - especially since the XP rate will only be a quarter what it is now. If that drops off I suspect Portalarium will find other ways to get people out and about. (Possibly including the introduction of new and exciting skill trees.)
     
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  3. Jace3

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    Getting scrap is easy but can you get silver, copper, gold scrap? At some point we either have to buy that ore from other players or mine it ourselves. It would be nice if we could get loot that would give us the other types of scrap. Maybe on higher end mobs?
     
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  4. mdsota152

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    168g, 150gp, 100gp... bah... all too much. I have yet this release to purchase anything from a player vendor due to costs of raw materials... sorry, but I can just go get it myself, have some fun skilling up in the process and not pay squat for overpriced raw materials. I had fun going out and using my basic armor and wpns to craft my first set of epic leather in a day, then three days later had crafted a nice set of augmented chain. It didn't take that long, I made lots of skill ups, and I made plenty of money on the stuff I didn't need.

    Maybe a hard core crafter only will want/need to buy from them, or for the more hard to get items, but it's a real waste of money to buy basic raw materials from them (iron, copper, etc) at inflated prices... but that's just my 2 cents and play style (I'm not just a crafter or just a fighter, I do a little of both and support myself)... if you've got the money to burn then go for it. :) So I figure the PC vendors and the prices are more aimed at the poor guy/gal that just wants to be a crafter and never go out into the world... they are stuck paying the prices. Someone like me will just cut out the middle man and save some money... it all boils down to time vs money and I don't care how long it takes me to get the resources I need to make that one Item I'm working towards... it's fun for me to have a goal.

    I'll be very interested to see how the pure crafters do... I suspect just fine though since they'll be able to get more for their finished products to cover the cost of the materials anyways. So in the end it all works out for everyone, at least until everyone has that set of uber armor and wpns and doesn't need anything but repair kits... ;) Then the repair guy/gal will be in big demand.


    (Sorry, I just don't see the in game economy being sustainable like our RL disposable/built in obsolescence economy... :))
     
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  5. agra

    agra Avatar

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    In any game with infinite supply, the trend value of all common raw materials approaches zero over time.
    You can try to sell it for more than zero, but people will just get it for themselves.
    And of course, all that sets aside gold/dupe exploits, which tend to show up early and completely fubar the 'economy'.
     
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  6. Jace3

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    Once people have more gold than time they will tend to buy what they want and not get it for themselves.
     
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  7. Jivalax Azon

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    I agree with Womby here. Though I must admit, I have little idea what ore is worth, as there is little chance I will EVER sell any of mine. I mine as much as I can stand and use scrap and can use up two days of mining in an hour of crafting. The only things I sell are the failures and overruns from trying to get what I want for myself and guild mates and every little thing I throw on a vendor sells in a day or so.

    The thing about a game, unlike real life, is that I don't have to sell anything to feed my family. If you don't want my 138g piece of ore, I don't really care. I don't need your money. And if I can't sell my crafted items at enough profit to buy what I want, I don't have to change my price, marketing or strategy, I can simply change games. So to say we need to keep ore difficult to get or crafters will be billionaires is saying we don't really want a healthy economy or player made items.

    I play MMOs because I love in game crafting. But I find myself adventuring almost all the time to support my crafting. I have stuck with Sota for over two years of testing because I believe in the dev team and love the community. However, at some point I will want to actually play. If crafting isn't viable then, I will go elsewhere. Simple.

    In the end, 138 is far too much to pay for ore ... but not enough for selling it.
     
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  8. mdsota152

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    I think this sums it up nicely. :) Absolutely agree with this 100%. Somethings just aren't worth it... if you have a surplus and don't need it... sure stick it on your vendor and if it sells in a few days great... but I wouldn't go out of my way to mine it to make a profit... just enough for my own needs.

    If I can't find any cheap (and I haven't yet)... I'll go get it myself... if I have a some left over... I'll usually stick it in a chest for later use.
     
  9. Elnoth

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    Womby, you haven't factored in any of the rare ores that you would have obtained in that time, such as tin, that are worth 10x as much as the iron/copper. If you are placing a price based on the time used to obtain the resources, you have to look at the end price of ALL the resources that you gathered.
     
  10. SmokerKGB

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    Nice job... on the OP...

    1- I would never buy raw ore @139g per, that's like insane... 4x to make 1x ingot, 9x ingot to make a 1x Halberd head... Then I have to make the armor pieces, the cost would be too high for me to stay in business...

    2- Why buy from you, when I can get my own? for free...

    3- Seems like skeletons drop too much loot, maybe they should do a random pick of 1 item as loot, then your net income from skeletons is reduced, so you can earn more from mining ore because you earn more mining per hour than farming skeletons...

    4- Supply / Demand dictates pricing, try x4 game suggestion to start, if they sell out, try x6, keep bumping until NO sale happens, then drop back... Test product sold by only listing 10ea per sale, then go with quantities...
     
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  11. Womby

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    Only two ore to make an ingot if you use metal scrap, which you can easily obtain by farming skellies. If you don't do it that way there is no way you'll be able to compete with those who do.
     
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  12. Elwyn

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    Except you can't right now, because scrap was not on the "approved list" in R26. (I've already made a bug report about this.)

    And that load of scrap you are talking about is enough for maybe 25-30 ingots. 12 scrap substitutes for 2 ores, so that ~1300g worth of scrap is the equivalent of (just going by the math in front of me) about 25g per ore it replaces. (There is still no silver scrap, so Sindariya can't take advantage of that.)

    I prefer to collect both ores and scrap and make ingots to sell. It's also one less step for the next guy, since almost no recipes need raw ores other than to make ingots. Even the special ingots (like meteoric iron) start from an already smelted iron or copper ingot.
     
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  13. Womby

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    That's what I do, except that I have yet to attempt to sell anything. So far I have been simply storing what I accumulate.
    This is my current inventory. It's not huge, but it's not tiny either:

    Copper Ore (660)
    Iron Ore (562)
    Silver Ore (237)

    Bronze Ingot (42)
    Copper Ingot (169)
    Iron Ingot (34)
    White Iron Ingot (88)

    Uncut Emerald Gem (10)
    Uncut Garnet Gem (18)
    Uncut Ruby Gem (6)
    Uncut Sappire Gem (7)

    (plus many gem fragments)

    If I needed gold and couldn't sell the above at my preferred prices, I would not reduce those prices. Instead I would turn them into weapons, armour and jewellery.
    As it turns out I'll most likely hang on to them unless I really need gold for something specific, and farming skellies doesn't get me enough to cover it.
    (Yes, I think the economy as it currently stands could do with some adjustments if this is a viable approach.)
     
  14. Sophi

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    Coming out of ultima online (and I yes I understand that shroud is not a successor to UO, but this is just an example) which is a game that has been going for many years, and one could argue that its economy is as stable as it ever was or will be - basic crafting resources like ore still go for quite a healthy price.

    There are plenty of people out there that have neither the time or the desire to go out gathering for hours, and are perfectly willing to purchase resources instead. Problem is that there are not so many peeps willing to be out there gathering and selling. lol
    In my experience it ends up being a seller's market to a great extent., so I'd say this discussion is very relevant.

    Even 17 years down the road....
    :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2016
  15. Elwyn

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    Actually it approaches what an NPC will pay for the materials. Though on FFXI I have seen things listed for less than the NPC price because people are dumb and lazy and don't even try to check what the NPC buy price is.

    And that infinite supply isn't truly infinite if it depends on people actually going out and performing actions. If supply gets too high, people will be less inclined to collect more of the materials, thus reducing the supply.

    In about two weeks (not counting the dead first days after wipe) I have already accumulated a quarter of a million gold from selling raw and processed materials on my private vendor in Kingsport.
     
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  16. Womby

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    Correct. I wanted to keep it simple, and wasn't sure how to treat those. In my case I use them straight away to make ingots, and would never sell them.
     
  17. Sol Stormlin

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    Here we are in November of 2017. What are your conclusions since last year @Womby
     
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  18. Womby

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    Time is our most precious commodity, and grinding is an obscene time sink. I have therefore lost interest in grinding. Let market forces prevail. I'll be in one of my bookstores, reading something exciting, hilarious or informative written by one of the amazing authors we have in our community.
     
  19. Vladamir Begemot

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    I wonder what the opportunity cost of an hour is now? Are the miners still subsidizing everyone?
     
  20. Morgoth redbeard

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    i like suply and demand prices if to big a suply price go down if to little price go up
    to add in to price time spendt and stuff like that in to a price for ore means nothing if non intrested in buying it for that price

    i live in norway and hourly pay here minim pay is 150kr an hour thats like 18$ an hour now if i can mine 1k ore and hour and sell that for 18$ then yes i would only mine but take in to acc some live in othere contrys were pay is allot less and some just play the game to have fun so if you plan to quit your job and live of mining do have in mind market controll price sure you can put up ore for a mil gold but non will buy it

    if some sell ore for 50 each and its imposseble to find for less then price is 50 you might want more but players run around look at more then one vendor so they buy were its cheapest
     
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