Something that really burns my butt

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Alexandra Cornfellow, Feb 16, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Duke Olahorand

    Duke Olahorand Localization Team

    Messages:
    1,287
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Germany
    Potential technical solutions to human grief:
    A monster with active aggression flag (actually fighting against a player) in a certain range could be considered as the guardian of the resource and while the flag is active, the resource cannot be harvested. Seen with looting chests from T-Maps in Ultima Online.
    Or the player can also harvest, while he is under attack ... but the harvesting player always gets the highest aggro flag (therefore the guardian mob would turn to him even in battle with a different player) and the damage done by the attacking mob is quadrupled while harvesting.
     
    SeleneNoctua and Dreamo84 like this.
  2. Grave Dragon

    Grave Dragon Avatar

    Messages:
    1,406
    Likes Received:
    3,116
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lost in the Nether.
    So I'm here thinking about this and can't help but want to say, if you want the ability to steal resources, it should be an actionable offense (with consequences) because whether anyone wants to admit it or not, it's a butthead move. So I wouldn't at all be opposed to making all pve zone resources instanced up to a maximum of 2 unique player harvests with unique cooldown for each of those 2 players. (Per my convo with SeleneNoctua earlier, it fixes the OP issue without presenting an issue to flooding the economy).

    Next, leave the pvp zones alone.

    If you're cool with pushing players who don't want to be griefed to SPO and FPO, you won't mind if we claim the equivalent and send players who want to resourse steal back to pvp zones where you can act a fool as much as you please with all the other folks who have voluntarily accepted the risks associated with pvp zones. At that point you resource steal at your own risk and everyone is happy.

    The best resource harvesting is in pvp zones after all.

    Sounds like a fair compromise to me.:cool:
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
  3. Selene

    Selene Avatar

    Messages:
    3,106
    Likes Received:
    11,697
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Serpents Watch Brewery!!
    Well, assuming this mechanic is ONLY in PVE scenes that are NOT party only (there is no griefing from party members after all) and limited to two harvests for two unique players, I would say it wouldn't be an economy breaker. The majority of the best resources are down in mines (party only scenes) and PVP zones. I still think it's a lot of unnecessary coding to identify the appropriate zones then flag the appropriate nodes, but if it makes people more happy in multi-player, then I'm for it.

    Honestly, I mainly play in MP and I've had resource stealing happen to me maybe three times ever. I think it's a lot of work for something that is an annoyance at worst, and there are other things in the game that are more detrimental to gameplay that should get a higher priority.
     
    Haz, Womby and Grave GodsHammer like this.
  4. Grave Dragon

    Grave Dragon Avatar

    Messages:
    1,406
    Likes Received:
    3,116
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lost in the Nether.
    Don't forget the lipstick.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Turk Key

    Turk Key Avatar

    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    4,012
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Life is not fair. That is a fact. We can hole up and avoid the whole mess, or we can buck up and endure. There will never be a society of people that meet our desired standards of conduct.
     
    Quenton likes this.
  6. Alexandra Cornfellow

    Alexandra Cornfellow Avatar

    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    881
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Location:
    Norway
    Does that mean we shouldn't even try? Sounds rather defeatist to me. Nor, if I might dare, is our Novia 'life' (assuming you mean planet earth life). Personally Novia for me is a place to go to get away from 'life' for a bit--which kind of points to the first portion of your third sentence in sort of circular way, hehe.
     
  7. 4EverLost

    4EverLost Avatar

    Messages:
    1,441
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    In a Swamp far away from the beaten path
    Actually the socialization was only part of what that quote was about but if all you saw is the socialization, I can see why you don't see the problem.
     
  8. Haz

    Haz Avatar

    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    606
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nor Cal
    Wow, Is it really that big a deal to have someone steal your resource while fighting a critter. Once the critter is dead, you will gather resources from it as well. I understand you may be out looking for maple and not hides, but you'll find something to do with the hide. At least, I do. If I remember correctly (I may be wrong here so DLMB), but aren't we gonna have the same resources on both SPO and MPO, so if that resource is taken in SPO it won't be available in MPO until the respawn timer is reset? You'll be gathering resources and fighting ghosts you won't even know are there.

    Where would the instancing stop? I go to a vendor and someone else buys a piece of armor/wep/resource I wanted....should it be made available to both of us? What if this armor was on a public vendor? It doesn't mean I don't want/need it as much as the next guy does? If they are gonna instance resources, what about the biggie, housing? Do we really want instanced housing (and for the record, I ain't got no house and probably won't for a long, long time) ? Where will the line be drawn and how long before that line gets redrawn?

    There was comment about running into players while you are deep in a forest and it not feeling real.....what ya gonna do when we go LIVE? How many more players are gonna be out and about when we have 4x, 5x, 10x the number of active accounts we have now? You are gonna run into people in the damnedest places. Places you would think would be free of others. OH MY GOODNESS, what we gonna do on weekends when everyone and their brother is on online.....Ahhhhhhh, the inhumanity of it all!!!!!! Owlshead, Adoris, even little ole Soltown is crowded........help me Jesus!!!!!!

    I play in both SPO and MPO. SPO when I have a task at hand that I can handle by myself that I just wanna get done (resource collecting, grinding for levels, teaching my grandson how to do something, to name the first three that pop into my head), and MPO when I'm looking for a challenge that needs more folks (I don't PvP), when I'm assisting another player with something, when I'm looking to socialize (bad example for me), when I'm looking to have a certain type of fun that requires laughing at each other, harassing and being harassed by friends, heading into an area I KNOW I will die in quite quickly.

    There are a host of things that are gonna bug some of us and not others, that are gonna cause us to change the mode we are in. Use them to your benefit. That may not be what they were originally intended for, but that's how we'll use them!
     
  9. Turk Key

    Turk Key Avatar

    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    4,012
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I have given your question some serious consideration. At first I thought perhaps I had been a little defeatist. You see, I hate behavior that disregards the feelings of others. I guess the question is what solution is there that isn't worse than the problem in the first place? I really want global chat. But the problem with irritating people and gold spammers has been solved by eliminating global chat altogether. I think that is worse than bucking up and biting my lip. I am a hypocrite, however and sadly must accept that fact. I love PVP but do not play it anymore because I cannot stand the verbal trash talk and lack of honor. If I walked the walk, I would still be in PVP. So good point, Alexandra...
     
  10. Alexandra Cornfellow

    Alexandra Cornfellow Avatar

    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    881
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Location:
    Norway
    Hi Aldo,

    I've tried PVP in a few games, but always end up napping in the dirt. I've come to the conclusion the I'm too old for it--my reactions are sluggish compared to the younger folks.

    In any event, and more on point, I started this thread because I needed to rant, and it helped. There have been lots of good discussions and I find myself leaning towards just letting it be. I've harvested a gazillion trees in the last couple of weeks and the unsavory episodes have been only two. And a acknowledging the phenomenal class and maturity the overwhelming majority of my fellow adventures have demonstrated, I think the problem, currently, is minimal. What the future hold, as populations increase, may change my opinion. But I hope not :).

    Cheers,
    Cornfellow
     
    4EverLost, Aldo and SeleneNoctua like this.
  11. Rodriguez

    Rodriguez Avatar

    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    241
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Switzerland
    I noticed that, as I didnt really say most of the things you were attacking.

    A few points though:
    What are you using the resources for? If you end up selling them to other people in any way or form you DO compete.

    I dont know what this has to do with realism.

    Well its easy to play a peaceful character when the system protects you from all harm but I wonder how your diplomacy holds up when you cannot enforce anything.

    I dont really think we gain much by starting a PvP vs PvE debate here, neither side can claim moral superiority so lets just leave it there.
     
  12. Quenton

    Quenton Avatar

    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    979
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Old Britannia
    We've got to be careful not to dig ourselves into a Trammel/Felucca hole.

    It's one thing to hate being pk'd so much that you move over to Trammel, but in doing so, leave the richer playing experience that you can admit Felucca provided, and split the players in half in doing so.
     
  13. Traveller13

    Traveller13 Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    2,167
    Likes Received:
    2,715
    Trophy Points:
    153
    When I want to gather resources, level up and complete quests, I play SPO. When I'm not doing that, I play multi-player. Problem solved.
     
  14. redfish

    redfish Avatar

    Messages:
    11,366
    Likes Received:
    27,673
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Yea, so I don't really like the idea of personal resource nodes because I think it just is a confusing solution from the user end. You either see someone else harvest a node and he doesn't really harvest it. In that case, he cuts down a tree, and doesn't actually harvest the tree -- which doesn't make sense. Or, you see someone just stand there, picking his nose, and don't see what he's actually doing.

    My view,

    - A lot of scenes should be much larger than they are now. Some scenes are really tiny -- for instance, East Perennial Trail. When scenes are that small, you can't help hogging resources and blocking other people from getting them, because you and whoever else is there are just running around in a tiny circle. The larger the scenes are, the less resource stealing is a problem.

    - Certain resources should be more common, while others should remain rarer. Why is it so difficult to find harvestable trees in forests? Make people fight over the resources that are rarer, not the ones that are supposed to be common. Common pine trees should be plentiful and easy to find. Rare reagents used to make high level alchemical concoctions shouldn't be. People should be fighting over rare reagents, not pine trees.

    - I still think that the chance of player-to-player encounters in scenes should be tuned right based on what you expect to see in the scene. Not every scene should feel like it should have high traffic. Some areas should feel desolate -- I'm sorry. And, yes, this is a valid immersion issue. If every single time I go into a desert or deep forest, I run into another player, then I lose the feeling that its a large world in which I can get lost. And maybe I do want to get lost. If I want to be alone, shouldn't I have somewhere to go except my home? Some places should be filled with people; other places shouldn't. So let us be able to go places where we can feel alone, and let us be able to go places where expect to see a crowd. One of the great things about Selective Multiplayer is that the game can determine how many people makes sense for each scene. And there would still be a chance, just a lower chance. Like I said, at the moment, this seems to depend on the server population, so I don't think its so much of a problem right now, but it could be.
     
    Spoon and Duke Olahorand like this.
  15. HairballHacker

    HairballHacker Avatar

    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    315
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Considering that there is no way one person could harvest an entire tree, put it in their backpack, and move on to harvest the entire next tree, etc. also does not make sense.

    What makes more sense is that one person cut down the tree, harvested some of the materials, put the materials in their pack, and then the next person harvested some more materials from that same tree and put it in their pack, etc...
     
    Duke Olahorand likes this.
  16. Mata

    Mata Avatar

    Messages:
    4,027
    Likes Received:
    9,894
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Ruhrpott - Deutschland
    ;)
    :D
     
    Xandra7 and SeleneNoctua like this.
  17. Rodriguez

    Rodriguez Avatar

    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    241
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Switzerland
    So you want less competition and I want more competition Fine...

    I dont see how this is a thing if the system doesn't even allow violence.

    No, I am essentially saying that its more fun to play in an environment where the players have to police themselves and band together for mutual protection.
     
    Quenton and SeleneNoctua like this.
  18. agra

    agra Avatar

    Messages:
    1,501
    Likes Received:
    3,489
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Having participated in such social experiments (which all failed) in persistent multi-player online games of the past, from M59 until today, that has not been my experience. (Games like darkfall, shadowbane, uo, mo, pfo, allods, ac2, war, more)
    Specifically, for me, it's not more fun.
    For me, it's the exact opposite of fun. It's a job. It also turns into gang thuggery of the lowest form, and brings out the absolute worst in participants.
    But that's just my experience. :D And why I'm happy to play any game where such interactions are purely consensual, from now on, having seen such failed experiments at least 8 times, first hand.
     
    Duchess Fionwyn, Aldo and Spoon like this.
  19. Rodriguez

    Rodriguez Avatar

    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    241
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Switzerland
    I would disagree that these games failed due to the "pvp everywhere" aspect. I played a quite a few of them and also EVE and while I totally agree that it brings out the absolute worst in many people but it also brings out the best in a few. Thats why I always come back to games like that. :)

    You know what? Believe whatever you want.
     
  20. Fionwyn Wyldemane

    Fionwyn Wyldemane Avatar

    Messages:
    1,841
    Likes Received:
    6,079
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Don't get me started about ninja looters. I'll get a forum ban for *language* :mad:
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.