XP UI Question

This is related to ongoing discussion about xp/leveling issues, but I made it a new thread because I don't have a specific opinion about mechanics, just a question about interface, and don't want to derail other people's conversations about the mechanical end.

My question is that if it's not designed intent for players to accumulate huge xp pools then why do we have such a large xp bar ever-present on our screen to begin with?

Isn't it like one of the most universal aspects of gaming behavior that if you put a progress bar in front of people, they will often feel a compulsion to want to fill it whether the end result is all that beneficial or not? Meanwhile, what seems to be the more desired behavior of micromanaging skill gain while adventuring is, to my knowledge, neither explained nor intuitive, and seems so esoteric and complicated that it requires either a lot of trial and error or out-of-game research for a player to achieve the goals they want with it.

So it makes me wonder if some of the community division on the subject might be more related to expectations that are created or violated by the interface design than by how the actual mechanics are working underneath, and maybe addressing the interface would improve the situation.

 

Think we have the bars now because when they took it out before there was a storm that brewed that blew it back in and in its current position?

 

Oh, really? I didn't know that history, sorry.

It still seems problematic to me since people have been trained for years that advancement comes from filling that particular bar in that particular place rather than by emptying it, but if it's what the community wanted and not just what we were given, then that's a different issue then.

 

The bar was removed a while ago, we didn't like not being able to see what was in our pool, because the xp pool system was even worse back then and we needed to see things When they fix the system perfectly*, then I think they will remove the bar again... but only when we no longer REQUIRE it to do things

 

That's also helpful to know, thank you. Though to clarify, I didn't mean to suggest removing the information entirely, just not doing it in the form of a progress bar. Like making it a number in the 'V' window or character sheet or something like that.

 

Well, I hope that managing xp and keeping an eye on the xp pool will become unnecessary.. time will tell. The developers do want us to 'play the game', not 'game the system'. Things have gotten bumpy along the way, and will again.. but eventually they should get it just right

 

The XP bars, like many other things, should be considered "debug tools": available at the moment, while in full early release developing effort, but never to be counted on for the long run.

 

I wanna point out that micromanaging skills is not intended to be neccessary. Being able to progress naturally and casually based on what you do in game is the intent. At the moment, your primary weapon skill and armor passive skills eventually eat up and absurd ammount of experience, which i think might need ot be looked at. Locking these at a decent level will make progressing easier. I am level 63, have msot of my skills near 70 and have my armor passives, and primary weapon skill locked. I let everything else progress naturally and will nto have any issues unless i try to become a multi-GM superpower, at that point, micromanaging skills will become appealing.

The original intent was to not have this progress bar, to have it hidden. But there was alot of negative feedback about the itnention to hdie levels and experience bars alltogether, so im nto sure if its still the intent (i believe that at least the adventure and producer levels will be hidden)

 

I am currently testign all high end above-80 skilsl unlocked, and my experience pool is still healthy and maintains itself while killing things. No need ot micro manage at all.

Primary weapon skills and armor passives are ok. You can leave ll skills unlocked and still keep experience in your pool.

 

Get a GM or two...

 

I got a armor passive at 98 and im fighting 2 wolves at a time, so its suckign up experience abotu 3 times per second. I agree it should be tested with 2 or 3 GM skills tho, but my highest ones are all above 80 and theres 5 of them, 3 of them are my weapon skill and my armor passives, and the otehr two are thrust and offhand attack, which are skilsl i spam liek nobody's business while fighting.

And im still abel to maintain a third of my XP bar naturally, which seems pretty healthy

 

I have no innates (passives) that high yet, but 3 GM skill glyphs. I'm currently level 71 I think. Curious, did you leave your innate unlocked the whole time?

 

Today i have been fightign stuff with everything ulocked. While they were locked, my bar was evenign out at about 50% full, which was around 30k exp. Once i unlocke dmy armor innates and my weapon skill, it dipepd ot about 13k, which is about 1/3 of your bar looks like, and evened out there. I went to fight Wolves which hit twice as fast as anythign else, and it dipped slightly further, but not enough to notice

 

I think if they make any skill gains after 80 suck it up at the same rate (even above GM) then there wont be a need to add monsters worth higher experience.

I never got a skill to GM so im not sure if a beyond-GM skills ucks up XP faster than a 90 skill

 

Actually, skills in their 90's take quite a lot per draw (I believe someone said it takes the same xp from 1-96 as it does to go from 99 to 100 or something like that)... you should try this out and this is where a lot of us higher level players are finding difficulty. Tho last eve I had little issue with training my 4 skills I have on, killing kobolds mostly... this eve I'll be turning on EVERYTHING i want training, and see where I dip to, and what mob areas are best for me.

This xp system is interesting, I'll give it that. It seems to give different people different issues

 

i was about to try and GM acrobatics to test it but, because of the low pooled experience, it takes for-freakign-ever to GM a skill now, apparently. so i levae the GM testign to folks who already got the gain boosts from having massive xp pools

 

I'm actually finding Innates are not as much of a problem to deal with as weapon skills. Raising an innate at skill lvl 89 with everything else turned off I can make a net gain in Adventurer XP, but raising only one out of 5 attack skills I am using (at a lower skill level of 75) I get a net loss (adventurer lvl 55). (I'm talking about pooled xp when I say loss.)

Don't forget that much of the debate has centred around gathering and crafting. Gathering resources tops out at 500 XP per node whether you are at skill 10 or skill 90.



edit : in fact I can keep 4-5 innate skills raising and maintain parity.

 

so far, i am still unable to drain my expereince pool unless i try to, or die repeatedly whiel not killing anything for a while.

If gathering skills are working the same way, you wont run out of pooled xp, your gains will just slow down as long as your gathering. Production doesnt hardly offer any experience, and im not sure what thier plan is for that.

 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?forums/player-created-resources.486/