Blood and Gore

This is actually not quite true. Dead Space is available in Germany, The Witcher 2 is uncut, and many others... There is a lot of blood in these games.

 

A picture's worth a thousand words.

 

Blood has a very important job in games. It's feedback to show that a hit was made, and it did damage. Other than that, we don't need blood all over the place.

 

"You've got no arms left."
"Yes I have."
"Look!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"


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Perhaps, and yet.. (and yes, this is a 10 year old article, but I presume it's still true..)

"
... If a game features blood splatterings, decapitations or death cries, it runs the risk of being placed on a government list known as "the index." Being indexed means it can't be sold to anyone under 18, displayed in stores or advertised on television, in newspapers and in most magazines. ...
"
source.

Hopefully SotA can avoid being put on "the index". If anyone IN Germany knows of the law in practice surrounding this in 2013, please, chime in.

 

I've never understood that desire for such a gruesome level of realism. When I engage in the combat I enjoy the challenge of the skill match - like the stylized form of chess. (Chess is based on warfare anyway - I mean killing peasants and bishops - pretty intense stuff) I don't delight in the actual wounding or the actual killing.

Is it cathartic? Does it help channel frustration from real life? Is it enjoyable to revel in blood and gore or humiliate others? I wonder.

Don't tell me "it's cool" (that's no reason) or "i don't get a chance to do it in real life" (really?). I'm not a fan of the idea either that just because something can be done it should be done.

Really, what's the purpose? Where does the enjoyment come from? Seriously want to know from the blood and gore advocates.

 

"personal preference" is not a valid arguement for "improving" a game. For some reason some people want it.. it's their "personal preference" but there's another side to that coin. It also turns some people off. 0 net gain. A game that needs to pander to "personal preferences" is a game not well designed.

Also please make note of my use of the word "gratuitous". If there's a point to it such as the scene in U7 that's fine, that also isn't much of a case. Games are quite a bit more realistic now than they were back then and the ritual murder scene only appears a couple times as part of story. U7 never had blood and body parts flying off anywhere in battle.

 

I can't speak for others but this is my take on it (and hopefully I don't come across sounding psychotic):

When it comes to violence (in the combative sense) in video games or movies there is a vicarious connection between the player/viewer and the characters involved. The conflict one may read in literature of person vs. person, person vs, environment, etc. plays out visually and integrates the player/viewer's attention in a manner that becomes a part of that person's experience. Indeed, watching blood spurt out in copious amounts, entrails spilling out, decapitations, amputations, etc. returns one's attentions to one's own mortality and fragile existence. To struggle against another and inflict grievous wounds while avoiding such injury or recciving less grievous injury provides the player with a sense of accomplishment of coming out of the other side of that conflict victorious. The depiction of such violence in the form of blood and gore is not just about esthetics or perceptual entertainment but is a testament to the difficulty of the struggle and its gruesome price.

Now, with all that said, there's also the "it looks cool" reason and that is perfectly valid. These avatars who are stabbing things aren't using wooden swords or Nerf battleaxes. The weapons employed should behave like the weapons they represent and perform the kind of damage those weapons do. If it cuts, it cuts; if it crushes, it crushes; if it impales, it impales.

As far as the chess analogy is concerned, the rules of the game make it so the pieces when moved against another player's piece automatically take the losing piece off the board. There's no chance that the pieces will actually fight over that particular square where the outcome could go either way. Violence demonstrates that contention, and again, blood and guts is representative of the gravity of that struggle. Of course, at the same time it shouldn't be blood and guts porn as in Mortal Kombat.

 

SoTA will feature a lot of "personal preferance" features such as the slider thing and on/off-line features, long house or regular house, I agree with you this may not be a well designed game, but we'll see.

Noted.

 

You actually went there.. taking statements within the context of the topic out of context aside..

If you're going to draw a connection like that then make sure the two things being compared are.. well.. comparable.

There's huge difference between wanting.. or not wanting to see blood and gore.. which is an entirely passive feature.. and not wanting people you've never even met before going out of their way to gank you and take all your stuff. Yeah it's a personal preference of mine to not have a stranger break into my home, trash my computer and run off with all my favorite toys. It's also a personal preference to avoid having to eat spinach but you'd never draw a comparison between the two in order to force me to eat spinach.

The 'slider' goes beyond people's preferences in order to direct player behavior in a constructive way. It also servers as part of the match making which plays a major role in the game's networking functionality. This should have a major impact on the game's performance and provide a friendlier environment for everyone to play in.

More blood and gore? What does THAT do? There are no gameplay mechanics involved. It doesn't change how anyone is going to play. Some people will like it.. some won't and some won't care. Some will like it a little too much and others will be offended or grossed out.. that's about it. There is no gameplay value to be had there.

Not to mention the whole thing about slider settings being completely optional.

 

@Wsye - There's realism and there's realism. You wouldn't use that argument to have realistic toilets/sewer trenches. Most games don't have them because that realism isn't really appreciated. To me having blood/gore is like have in game realistic sewers/toilets. Realism itself is not an argument.

@Kambrius - yes you are psychotic - check yourself in somewhere.... And please I hope you don't live in my neighborhood!

 

Yes, I did go there. And it was all generally in context...

I thought they were reasonably comparable, I wouldn't have said it if they didn't seem reasonably compairable.
I'm not just messing with you or trying to be a jerk, I really see my points as being reasonable and beneficial, just as you see yours.
Like I've said before (though you may not have caught it), we both want what's best for the game, our goals are the same, though we may seek different ways of achieving it, we are both on the same side.

 

You're really wrecking our immersion here with all the anti-sewage, anti-gore talk.
How are we supposed to immerse ourselves in the "Collect 10 blood clots from dead rats in the sewers." quest with that goin' on?
A vote for Ultra-Realism is a vote for Xtra-Immersion.

 

And I'm just saying there's differences between the arguements used to support your case vs that actual suggestion. The U7 screen is a references to story driven content for example. The original request isn't that specific.. just more blood and gore all around basically.

We're basically talking about a feature whose sole purpose is visual simulation that may or may not be appreciated by the individual but otherwise offers no benefit to gameplay and the lack of which has never hurt a well designed game. The slider as an example of design to cater to preference doesn't fit because it's designed function. (That is among other things that it has a function).

A better comparison on the 'personal preference' front might be.. artistic style or various house designs. They have no real impact on gameplay in terms of one design over another and we may not like every design but we're going to see them all over the place anyway.

All that said.. if the more blood & gore were optional I suppose I would have no complaints but I stand my statement that it won't make the game any better.

 

Be careful where you want to go with that. Next thing you know you'll have to empty your bladder after every few ales in the tavern and could be forced to watch your avatar sleep. If you don't eat you'll starve to death and if you don't bathe no one will want to go near you.

 

I don't feel really strongly about this, but I do think it makes sense to leave some bloodstains for a few minutes and stuff.

The thing is, from everything I've read here, people just went gaga over collecting heads and body parts and all that in UO - if it was an enjoyable aspect of play for so many, then it follows that it would be popular in SotA. How did UO fare with distribution in Germany and other countries? What was the critical reception of such features? So far I have not read any comments in the negative about UO gore. I wonder if there were many people who found it utterly distasteful?

Also, I think having some game-sanctioned activities of this sort can help to remind people that's it's all in good fun. Kinda like the over-the-top gore in Machete, as an example. It's not trying to be realistic and for many people it helps to clearly define it as fantasy.

 

A little blood splatter is one thing.. but forcing that poor newbie you just ganked to watch as you carved up their corpse for kicks is something I do find utterly distasteful. If nothing else it's insult to injury. I doubt many people on the recieving end of that treatment appreciated it as much as the few who seemed to get a kick out of it.

I'm not especially offended by what happens during combat. It's combat after all. But when you start letting people cut up corpses and engage in cannibalism or whatever else that is going too far in my book. I don't understand why anyone would want those things as a game feature nor do I particularly want to understand it. Nor do I care to walk into town one day and see my own head on display because I happened to engaged in a little story driven PvP.

The nature of 'gore' aside. I see it very much like taking enjoyment out of someone else's pain. Your enjoyment at the cost of someone else's. How many players want to watch themselves be cut up and put on display?

 

In NWN you had a special gore mode you had to enable via the config files that allowed you to turn it up to 11. When things would take over a certain amount of damage in 1 stike things would explode in gibs. It was quite fun and I enjoyed it.

I would like to see something similar in SOTA: an optional gore setting which is only visual but is some what affected by elements in the game.