Gold Crowns of the Obsidians

@Chris Good post(thank you for taking the nuanced pay-to-win perspective)

If the per-server is capped- isn't the drop rate effectively way under 1/1000? Just seems weird to use that as a reference point if it isn't the limiting factor.

Also, how does high level content have any increased chance?

 

Have you assessed how the 'Producer XP' system affects this ? Anyone who wants to level a crafting class has to go out and generate the pooled xp from gathering enormous amounts of materials. By far the easiest way to generate producer xp is mining so the majority of people who want to be a crafter will be out mining huge amounts of ore (mostly gold the way Etceter is over resourced).


tldr - producer xp system is counter productive to the economy you are talking about.

 

Obviously i don't know what the drop rates are going to be, but based on the experiences of people i interact with in game, it seems like they may drop more rarely than once a week for a very active player. If the benefits are tangible (repairing a really good piece of armor, slowing durability loss with a potion or getting 50 levels worth of meticulous gathering with a potion), but they end up that rare then it doesn't seem like an inclusive system at all. I mean if the price in gold goes up to 50k a pop how many players can actually afford to sustain even a single potion once a week?

Yes, definitions make a big difference. I for one was using a definition closer to what Chris used (all inclusive but minor pay to win being acceptable).

A lot of people are using a definition that views anything outside of direct player combat as not pay-to-win, which personally i find very disrespectful to the varied play-styles that a game like SOTA or UO allows.

 

i am only pissed off these can be used for repairs. once everyone has great gear whats left to the economy if everything last forever with a couple of $$ spent a month?

 

Shroud of the P2W.

This is the step where am out.

Adios SotA.

 

I HATE P2W

It was my last presence in this nightmare.
I'll see you in a different game.

 

I know about supply and demand, I understand this concept very well and what I was showing here is that if you were to grind out for a coin is. You shouldn't say, 'Look were giving it away for free in game', when your not. The system is designed to give people false hope. But look its in game tradeable, well thats good but you tied it into the repair system so your giving it even more value.

The main issue I have is they said we will not sell items that effect game play in the item shop and look what we have now items for sale that effect game play. Some say no big deal it won't effect me, but the issue is that this introduces 2nd class players who have the money to be able to buy the buffs and then they will earn more gold by spending less on repairs thanks to buffs. Will be able to carry more loot thanks to the buffs and earn more gold or resources. Need less regens thanks to the buffs so then again spending less in game gold. How do you balance an econ when you have 2 different classes of players? Because the supply and demand just went out of balance for the players who buy the buffs to those that don't.

 

The Viking House is interesting, but I suspect you'd pull more customers in if you thought about 3 other structures:

Merchant Store Front Row House - Just requires minor tweeks to already built assets
Roof Top Access Row House - Flatten a roof and add a ladder
Rustic Row House

All three of these would make excellent bundles and produce far more sales than a Viking Row House. Even though the Viking Row House is interesting it is quite immersion breaking adding another odd looking structure to the mix of homes on a street. Towns will look a lot more interesting and have a better aesthetic appeal if they look a little more uniform in style with interesting variations rather than a circus of eclectic models placed randomly.

~Cristiano

 

First I don't mind the Obsidian Crowns, I've always felt gathering was so grindy and awful there would have to be something put in the add-on store at some point to make people want to buy it to make it bearable. Gathering really hasn't been worked on in a long while, so this may or may have not been the intention because it's not complete, I dunno. It's a buy to play game and there will always be advantage items sold in the add-on store I knew that from the beginning, again I'm ok with that, that's just the model.

I can't recall ever hearing this in the years I've been playing. I'm not saying you didn't say it, because obviously I can't read every forum post and see every hangout. I would have thought if this was a known though, I would have seen people going nuts over it, and I would have read it somewhere. I probably just missed it somewhere, it really doesn't matter to me though I like the GW2 model, it's a smart way to do a B2P game it's worked out well for them and should do well for Sota.

It does seem that gathering has been made so slow and boring even at 100 swift gathering you'd want the fastest swift gathering tool and some sort of boost to make it feel like it's less grindy and productive. Perhaps it's because gathering isn't balanced and hasn't had much attention for years though?, so we'll have to see the end product when the game releases to see how it is then. Sota's still under construction, I know.

It's true, Sota doesn't have addictive points, but it does have a pain point and that's the speed of gathering and yield from nodes, gathering is so grindy and boring you have to have the best tool and/or a potion to make it better. It's looking like that potions don't really matter so much at 100 skill though and just the best tool itself is enough, so the potions may not be needed for it beyond the low levels so that's good to see.

At the end of the day I think taking the GW2 model as they have with gems is a good thing.

 

The problem is that at the same time you've made this change, the best gear has lost durability. Masterwork/enchanted items lose durability and the crafter will be breaking items trying to make the best gear. Crafters will need to resource gather even more and spend more time, so the best gear got even more expensive. You need to spend real world money to repair that gear. And it is less durable than cheap starter gear.

Why wouldn't I skip player crafters and spend pennies on the dollar for starter gear that will last longer and be more convenient?

This system just killed the crafting system.

 

I love the crown idea. Love. Love.
If I love my Sword of the Silly Digital Avatar, I can keep it. Forever. I may have to pay Portalarium for that right, or earn it in game, but I can do it. I don't have to do it; I can earn another Sword of the Silly Digital Avatar if I like, or even switch to another sword. The beauty of this new system (which I mentioned I love) is it is MY choice as a player. I can repair items, make items, buy from players or use Crowns to keep my favorite sword going forever. This system is nothing short of sheer genius. I thank the devs for this bold step. It makes the repair issues and durability issues about which I was concerned obsolete. I have options. The choices are mine to make. Consistent with the game mission, this is my sandbox and I can play in it as I like. Thank you, Portalarium. Solution well done.

 

Sorry if this is a bit unconsistent but i just flew through 20 pages...

First i'd like to say... i'm not entirely disgruntled by the system. It has a reason to be. What i don't understand is (even after reading some points explanining it) how Max durability repair via GCOTO is not considered pay 2 win.

• It has been said items will get bonuses the long you use it, so as long as you have money to buy GCOTO and keep repairing my top gear i crafted in the early days, won't that make my gear best in game?
• Pay 2 Win is opposed as Play 2 Win. For Time = Money to be true there should be a direct way of translation between playing time and mony spent. So the money earned on average in time working should be balanced with time spend this game, meaning that the average unemployed player playing a working week worth of time should get as much crowns as the average working player could buy with the money he'd be willing to spend in the game. How to balance that? points of equilibrium are hard to attain... what's more likely to happen is to have unbalanced expressions; give more importance to the formar and it's Time > Money. Do the opposite and it's Time < Money.

Well all that was quite interesting. I'd like for the coins to be removed entirely from the gear repairing thing. They could attract people to buy those baiting in other aspects on the game that looks less "P2W".
Some quotes i've rescued from my reading i'd like to address...

No please, that's overstepping too much in the convenience of money vs time.

This is a fair point. If these is what you need to create the game we all want with all the elements we are imagining i could embrace it as well, but the crowns functionality should stay away from gear maintenance and character progression and stay focused on cosmetics and convenience elements of the game (meaning that items should be repaired with resources in game so GCOTO allows you to buy those resources, not the other way around). T

Not sure about those being directly interchangeable for money. It allows you to control the gold price... but at what cost? (Pun intended). I want more interactivity with the Overworld map and meaningful mechanics for Open PVP and what Redfish ordered but with a side of fries.

The side of Pay 2 Win vs Pay 2 SWAG will depend on how they manage the uses of the GCOTO. For example, they shouldn't be the item used to repair anything. We won't know until the time goes by so...

Let's see what we find when the wavefunction collapses. Maybe people with extreme good gear that has been playing since the beggining and has lots of bonuses stacked? Maybe a way for less invested players to spend some money on the game? We can only guess unless they unveil a long term plan for the GCOTOs.

Dragon is the new Whale. Got tired of reading, tomorrow i'll catch up with the 4 pages left (and the 20 more that may appear).

 

Actually the potions increasing the meticulous gathering should make craftable items more affordable with gold I would think. Not sure but it seems like if the crafters can get materials more quickly then players will buy from crafters with less pain as well.

 

That's only for crafters/gatherers that can afford to pay for potions. The rest of us will just have to deal with decreased prices we can charge for gear with no little to know change in our effectiveness.

 

Every game in the history of MMO's has players that buy and trade items for gold. We had this before the Obsidian Crowns. You're upset about an issue that exists everywhere, existed here before you were upset, and will exist in every game after this.

I totally understand what you're saying, but short of making a static game where players can trade any items or gold at all between one another what you're asking for is unachievable. The genie is out of the bottle and Portalarium doesn't have the power to put it back in any more than any other game company. Are they profiting off of it? Yes. Are they making it easier for players to obtain advantage for cash? Yes. But they're also removing a lot of the inflationary pressure that gold farmers create, and they're allowing people that don't have 12 hours a day to play a game to achieve some success in the game while also funding the game. A game that wouldn't exist without this funding.

 

To be perfectly honest I would love to wear my special water cloak from the charity thing. If all items break and there is no maximum durabilty restore I wouldnt' be able to wear that cloak because it will break and I'll have to buy a new one. I would much rather just repair the max durability. There is nothing more important to me at this moment then having the ability to make it /rain longer.

Our founder cloaks and stuff are a great example of items that need to have a max durabilty repair. They don't offer much in the form of power, but they are items that we cannot just craft. I suspect that the craftable cloaks will be more potent for combat/defense bonuses and might also increase power. So I doubt I would PvP in my make it /rain cloak a year from now

 

Good point. The only other thing is, while it may be just another source of gold in the market, there is an inherent limit imposed by the game. With the crowns, the only limit is someone's bank account. That can instantly destabilize a market.

 

If you don't mind - I'd like to explore how a valuation of Gold Crowns bought with real dollars against gold in-game will be monitored? You say the Gold Crowns weren't added to be used for buying gold - but they are in-fact a direct line to gold purchases from NPC vendors. By setting a real dollar value on crowns you have essentially set an expectation for value on everything from reagents to property deeds as well as homes and anything else that can be achieved or manufactured in-game.

1. Will the economy for Gold crowns be standardized across the map or will it remain regional for the Gold Crowns in-game? Will the player determined pricing of Gold Crowns change based on location in-game?

2. You said "premium currency will drop in game at a rate that will be throttled based on server concurrency" -- I heard "whoosh!" -- what exactly does this statement mean (for a layman) and how can we expect it to affect a player driven economy? And will throttles be location based or across the map?

3. You say you want the player economy to figure out what they're worth... What are some of the Portalarium ideas supporting this as an economic milestone? Once gold farmers figure out how to undercut the Gold Crown store price on crown sales (regardless of in-game economy or their own real life global currency trade offs) - gold farmers will take the market. How will this be balanced if players set the price in-game?

4. Once an in-game price is established will in-game drops be measured against add-on store sales?

Thank you for any attention you can give to any questions regarding the player economy.

 

Yeah but will all crafters actually spend most of their time gathering? Or will they save the time and just buy the materials if they are readily available? My guess is they buy the materials.

How many players do you think will not craft? Gathering is easy to do while adventuring. If we are gathering while adventuring and sell the materials, then the more materials available will reduce the price for those materials wither you use crowns or not. The reason is that if a person uses a potion and gathers more quickly they can sell more items. The supply goes up and the price falls. If the price falls, you won't be able to sell your iron ore for 1000 if the dude down the street sells it for 500. The price has to drop everywhere although prime locations for convenience might have a higher price.

In any case this does not kill crafting the finished product. If you cannot sell your materials to players then you still can sell it to vendors for a set price. So nobody loses when it comes to gathering.

REVISION: Actually people can set their vendors to buy materials from players. So you will always be able to find players willing to buy your materials. This is really good for crafting.

 

No you don't understand what I'm saying. What they are doing is going to cause inflationary pressure to happen. By giving players who buy crowns and use those to buy potions those players get bonuses. 25% reduced damage to weapons and armor. So now they need to repair less. Lets say its 4 repair kits needed for a week, well if you have this buff you only need 3. The have a use less regent buff potion that is 20% or 25% so they need less. Now they also have a carry more so you could loot more stuff to sell or refine or whatever each trip to your base from dungeon so you grab the more expensive things. Now your making more money by hulling back more loot each run. Having less costs cause of regents and less repairs. So you have more excess gold to spend on items.

Supply is low on what you want so because you have money you buy the higher price items. Now that becomes the new low bar mark for buying that item over time. These items are the high end engraved so lots of items needed to make them. The repair kits are over supplied because your now using less and regents are oversupplied. Those price wise become very cheap and people tend to stop farming them. You crashed 2 markets low end repair kits and regents. But you caused 1 market to go up the high end and that will just keep going up and make it hard for someone to come into the game and have fun cause they are fighting with people that know where to farm mobs to get gold and where to get good gear till they can afford the best. But also makes them see they have to pay money in order to get those buffs to be able to really enjoy the game cause everyone else is. So they have to grind out to get gold to buy from a player the crowns they can't afford to buy with RL money.

What is wrong is giving bonuses based on item shop bought items. Its a Pay2Win idea and doesn't work. I would be fine with pets and other non-gameplay items being sold, but selling gameplay buffs with such a long time is wrong cause it makes it easy to slip the next "item" that does more in.

Also why aren't PVPers up in arms about this? There is a potion that gives a 50% less stamina drain for sprinting, so if you see someone and they have the potion they will be able to outrun you unless you have it as well(if you both have the same stamina).