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Gold Crowns of the Obsidians

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by DarkStarr, May 27, 2016.

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  1. redfish

    redfish Avatar

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    Basic versions of the merchant house I think should be obtainable in-game for gold, because its something that you'll want to encourage players to use that have shops... and its not just a vanity item for the owners. There could always be fancy versions of the merchant house, of course.

    Some of this stuff, like scales and a display case (though there can be special versions of it) should also be things that aren't made uncommon.

    A traders wagon like you described -- sounds like a peddlers wagon -- requires a new game system, and would probably be attractive to people who don't have housing because they don't have the money to buy housing and should really be considered as part of the new content in future episodes and not as a cash bundle. Market squares where players could set up stalls/booths was actually talked about here on the forums early in development after Kickstarter.

    Barking vendors would be good, though that would be a way to avoid vendor advertising in nameplates. So should be available to everyone, and the whole nameplate system for vendors needs to be thought about.
     
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  2. Sentinel2

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    I'm waiting to see how things turn out before I give an opinion. I'm curious how much more difficult it will be really to repair my stuff. It's already challenging to get enough resources to maintain equipment.
     
  3. Noric

    Noric Avatar

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    If you want to repair your stuff... it is going to be very hard. It might not be the end of the world to buy new stuff instead though.
     
  4. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    There isn't a huge difference between gear levels in this game, intentionally. Grinding your skill levels up means a lot more.
     
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  5. Ice Queen

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    I hope it stays that way too. The reason I left games in the past is the gear grind. Wow being the biggest example of gear grind. There were only so many arenas and raids you could take after years of it to finally be sick of it and say ok enough, and never again. Skills and the time you put into them should matter more than the gear you're wearing, imo. I would rather grind out different skins and effects for gear than the gear itself becoming useless all the time, but that's just me. :)
     
  6. Aurelius Silverson

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    I'm not hugely upset about the crowns being available for real-life cash - I don't have much money either in real life or in games, but I'm also not even slightly competitive against other folks (which may partly explain why the former is the case ;) ) and as my intention is just to play a lot since I have way too much time on my hands, and if my crafter breaks even and has fun, or my adventurers stay basically solvent and keeps good enough gear to handle the stuff I tend to fight, I'm happy enough. I'm way more interested in the community and the people I meet, rather than the acquisition of 'virtual stuff'.

    I am a little concerned though that the only way I'll be able to contribute to the game development and maintenance fees is to buy virtual stuff that I don't actually have any use for, or perhaps even space to store, and certainly not enough space to display (how the hell I could ever bring into use all the deco pets I already have so far is beyond me, and I could probaby hide my house under a forest of the trees, potted and otherwise, I've acquired to date!).

    Crowns letting me change the look of equipment may be handy, I guess, but it's not something I do that often in mmos, once I have my 'look' set up it tends to stay pretty much unchanged for years. I'd like something to buy for money that's reasonably priced (see the earlier' not rich' statement!) but I can keep on dropping cash to Portalarium for. Any ideas what would be appreciated, though, since my imagination is failing me...... other than just buying $5 or $10 store credits in the eventual hope they add up to enough for something I'd find genuinely desirable.
     
  7. Unseen [ONBE]

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    Not to go too deep into it, but that's not how supply and demand works in relationship to this discussion and in addition, supply and demand is not some magic that makes markets work effectively (vs. efficiently). It allows markets to match up buyers and sellers quickly, but does nothing to support fairness, equity, that an societal-ideal price will be reached, or a desirable distribution of trade. Smith made a big deal in his moral writings and that relying on the "invisible hand" wasn't a moral way to design an economy. Simply repeating supply and demand and telling people to learn about it is not accurate and may be taken as pretty condescending.
     
  8. Solazur

    Solazur Avatar

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    A rose by any other name...
     
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  9. Drocis the Devious

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    I agree. However, repeating p2w is also not a trump card that immediately wins the argument. Yet here we are.

    In real life I'm very much a liberal minded person that believes in the collective good of mankind, supports the concept of unions, regulations, a progressive tax, and many other things that you may not expect from someone championing the "free market". But that's really besides the point and I only bring it up to keep everything in perspective.

    This game should be fair and balanced in all aspects as much as possible. But it doesn't need to hold people's hands, nor does it need to reward people with unlimited amounts of TIME at the expense of people that do not have time to waste. In that sense, I feel we have a very "balanced" conceptual approach to the economy. Will there be outliers of people that spend tons of MONEY and get ahead? Yes, of course. But that was already going to happen as it does in all games. Will there be outliers of people that spend tons of TIME to get ahead? Yes, of course. But now that will be a little more balanced throughout the game as the influence of MONEY is streamlined.

    Here's the problem. There are people in this discussion that want the game to be all about TIME because that's what they have an abundance of. It allows them to "win". They do not want MONEY to influence or advantage anyone and they certainly do not want their TIME to decrease in value. What they're missing is that a system that cares only about TIME is no more fair than a system that cares only about MONEY.

    The system we are creating here is one that attempts to care equally about TIME and MONEY, and if some people think that's morally objectionable that's their right. But I strongly disagree in the context of a GAME. This is a past time, it's not about world poverty, or fair wages for the poor, or education, or socioeconomic opportunity. If you have TIME or you have MONEY, you can be successful in this game. But the game is competitive, and if your goal is to be king of the mountain (whatever that means to you), yes it will be harder to achieve if you don't have both. There's nothing wrong with that though, it just means that if all you have is TIME the value is decreased and you'll have to figure out creative ways to compete without using money. This should be seen as a welcome challenge. The people with MONEY are not off scot-free however, they are still required to play the game and play it well with the time they have. They still need to make good decisions, and they still need to put in some TIME or they will be unable to achieve anything.

    Supply and Demand will be the bridge between those with TIME and MONEY, and although it's not a moral compass, it is quite magical. I have no doubts that the people that will do the best in this game will have no trouble casting economic spells in this environment. It's the people crying about this system that are probably doomed to suffer because they lack the ability to compete in a world where you don't get extra credit for endlessly grinding and instead you have to use your brain to figure out how to profit in a working player run economy. Yes, that does sound condescending unless you take me at my word that I believe I'm only speaking the truth. Which I am.
     
  10. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    I get back from a week in Costa Rica to see this forum bomb dropped...not really sure how i feel about this yet. Need to wade in and read more, but lets not forget...in the immortal words of Hip Hop group Blackstreet, "You have to pay to play just for shorty bang-bang to look your way!" and I guess Chris Rock had it wrong...There actually IS sex in the champagne room, lol. ;)
     
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  11. Godra

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    Oops I forgot to write something. I agree with you. I guess I didn't see it that way at first. But yes, similar types of homes for all to purchase would be be a better idea.

    I also like the idea of similar smaller bundles without the lot deeds. I have my tax free deeds from pledges, but again the bundles should be similar items not the same.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2016
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  12. Kensing Ton

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    <gone...>
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2016
  13. Brass Knuckles

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    Just read this, I can say I have faith. The use base skill change, Gear that does not last forever, target cycling, auto attack, keeping blue healing(with penalties). Every one of these are things that I can get on board with and support. Fixing the prosperity tools and that card combat roll out are additional things that were fixed/improved I suppose the only thing I didnt get was hardcaps. Imop you guys are doing right, the p2w thing is scary but I know game making has upfront costs as well as running costs, I can live with it and with your promis to monitor it (just for the record I would have been behind a subscription based model as well).

    Good post and thanks for owning the p2w and explaining it out.

    Atleast its not spend x and get uber sword type of p2w :).
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2016
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  14. Sentinel2

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    True. It's possible repairing your junk isn't worth it anyway. Crafting new equipment may be the only option at that point. it would push the economy. As the game IS unfinished. It would be interesting to see where this goes.
     
  15. Roper Docholiday

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    I wasn't going to way in on this page. However I find myself not able to stay out of it.

    Personally I like the coins being in the game. I do not like the fact that they are about the only way one can keep their elite suit in the game or weapon. That is what irritates me. All those that cry we need to create breakage and etc to stimulate the economy guess what the coin system breaks that to shreds. Now if i have enough money I can keep my elite piece of gear in the game indefinitely. To me that becomes a pay to win scenario. The rest of the potions on the alchemist is fine, the rewards to cost I don't care the fact if you never want to buy one from the add on store or you can get one in game all though highly unlikely at the drop rate they are currently maybe when the game goes live you will be able to get one on a player vendor for 1/2 mil gold. But in the end it circumvents the entire breakage system. It unbalances the intent. I could go over a bunch of changes to the durability and crafting and max durability repairs but this isn't a thread over that its over the coins.

    The coins are fine however, with one of the advantages being you can repair your gear's max durability is out of line in my eyes.

    Magically being able to pay 1 dollar per item to fix your max durability takes away from the crafters again and creates another dysfunctional market item. Why pay a bunch of gold in the game for someone who built a piano when you can spend 5 dollars in the add on store and get it.

    If coins are allowed to break into the crafting world to repair items to me is more detrimental than the horrible decay rate of an item you wear. This goes directly against everything a crafter works so hard to become.
     
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  16. Drocis the Devious

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    I'm not a crafter, and honestly I don't understand what it means to "win" as a crafter. I really don't.

    I do know (or at least I can imagine) what it would mean to compete as a crafter, and to me it doesn't seem at all difficult to do that if you have a lot of time on your hands. I mean, let's just say that you make a set of epic plate. Can't you just sell that to someone that paid a lot of money for Obsidian Crowns and now you have a lot of Obsidian Crowns? You can use those crowns to do whatever you want to do, repair your stuff or make more stuff or whatever. Where's the problem? To me it doesn't exist.

    If I had all kinds of TIME to make cool stuff, I'd just sell it for Obsidian Crowns if that's what I wanted. Please explain to me why this won't work.
     
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  17. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    What is an "elite suit"? Everything is crafted, so is replaceable by definition. Sure, it's expensive to replace fully master crafted and enchanted gear, but no more so than real cash repairs.

    The only reason to repair that gear instead of replace is that gear can gain affinity over time. Once that system comes online, crowns will have a steady demand. Otherwise, it's exclusive for players who want to be lazy/pay for convenience. There will be many, but those are not the primary goal for crowns.

    Crafters will have a steady supply of gear, at various levels of power. Most players will choose to replace gear instead if paying real cash to repair it.
     
  18. Brass Knuckles

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    I like and agree with your post. Coins = bad for crafters long term. Who knows mabey they will invent a solution that solves this.
     
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  19. Drocis the Devious

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    I like the idea of making crowns a REQUIRED component in the crafting cycle for repairs, but not the only component.

    So that you can't just use the crown to make a repair, but you also need an experienced craftsman to apply it. This seems like a good way to keep crafters directly in the supply chain, it's good for social networks, and for roleplaying. Yes, people would still be able to use alts to accomplish this, but they would be more likely to seek out friends that would fill that gap.
     
  20. Whyterose Flowers

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    Yes these reasons you have stated is why I am not currently testing the game now, paying real life money in order to repair gear just doesnt seem right. Yes these are also rare drops which I am guessing will be very rare now in order to have more people pay for it in the AddOn store, as well as durability decreasing much faster which has been mentioned on other threads.

    It will do me good to just stop playing this game at this point and wait to see what happens later when the game is officially launched, I am sorry it has come to this but something just doesnt feel right about this anymore.
     
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