Throw out this random deck system now before it's too late.

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by SabeSr, May 12, 2016.

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  1. helm

    helm Avatar

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    I would perhaps amend the last part to "[so that] people with limitations in their situational awareness can look at the game more." ;)

    Also, peoples' limits are different. For example, what bothers me personally in the current straight deck is the lack of visual separation:
    Code:
    What is the seventh 'X' in "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"?
    
    
    What is the seventh 'X' in "X X X X X      X X X X X      X X X X X"?

    For added difficulty, try to look at the answer with your peripheral vision (in the first example, you could focus your gaze to the words "For example," in the line above).

    The straight deck is similarly difficult to keep track of, especially with peripheral vision (as an aside, @KuBaTRiZeS, thank you for your tip about moving the bar to the character's feet, it has improved my deck awareness a lot). So there's lots of room for improvement in the shape alone.

    I couldn't agree more about polishing mechanics. The goal should be to make the whole thing disappear: when driving a car, you don't think about the steering wheel or the brake pedal or other controls any more. You just drive.

    External polishing is one thing, what is equally important is to try to keep within your personal limits. For example, in my case I wasn't able to focus on the game and stack glyphs at the same time, until I pre-assigned the entire half of the combat bar. So now I need to look closely only at the other half, for instance I get an additional Aimed Shot glyph and want to combine it, I always do (in the case of Aimed Shot) combine-something-Z, where combine is the combine key and something is one of the glyph hotkeys in my totally unbound deck half - I know Z is always the aimed shot key. The amount of attention required dropped to less than a half, maybe 30-40% of what it was. It's tricks like these that can really make a difference.

    Edit - added code tags because otherwise the forum messes up the spaces in the example.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  2. himmelweiss

    himmelweiss Avatar

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    Hey umm... btw. i agree with the OP.

    But it will never happen :/
     
  3. Jaws2

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    Agree with the OP 100%. I haven't played since I figured out that cards were not going away (R20). I login to the forums about 3-4 times a month just to check on the situation. Same goes for all but one friend/gamer I know. I still hope though.

    Simple Test:
    1. Start a new character & level him/her to what ever combination gives you exactly 10 cards max, and 10 cards total in your deck (not sure if you can even do this anymore, see above).
    2. Set the deck to random.
    3. Set each individual card to come up in its own individual slot, but don't lock any of them.
    4. Go play...

    Once you have to start using more & more cards it falls apart, but that's what the game might be like w/o cards.
     
  4. Cinder Sear

    Cinder Sear Avatar

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    But... who wants to use 10 cards in combat? Or more for that matter? :rolleyes: I use about 6 steadily, with some locked down, no issues and I have the spells I want. I do have more than one deck, but I rarely need more than one deck during battle, as long as I crafted the deck carefully, it does work. I think there are some tutorial classes in game (by helpful community members) you can attend that will help you learn the system.. if you haven't played with the cards much since r20(?) I believe you will not have a good grasp on how it will work better for you.
     
  5. GraveDncer

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    Haven't read the entire thread, but my deck is the exact same as Solstar. I know exactly where my cards are going to pop.

    IMO the issues people have with the deck system could be be fixed a lot by... @Chris @DarkStarr @RichardGarriott

    1: creating a proper tutorial for the deck building system. (Many people don't understand how to build the decks)
    2: allow player to adjust the UI. Let use move our party names, change the size of the cards etc.
    3: give an a option to auto stack and auto combo.

    This would relieve a lot of the frustration and still allow this system to be successful.
     
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  6. Lord Stein

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    I am no fan of the deck system that's why I play "Dallas Mode" it works fine.
     
  7. Jaws2

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    The point is that when you have 10 max & 10 total cards, the system works correctly. Who wants to use 10? honestly I would like more, lots more, but with 10 max & 10 total u can......
    Hotkey spells and know that it is the same button all the time AND be able to use it as fast as the random deck drawing perfect cards every time.
    You can fire any spell any time w/o looking at the hot-bar. They are all ready asap, all the time. (a least 2x - 4x faster than locked glyphs)
    Unfortunately this only lasts for a small window of time early in char dev, until you are forced into using more cards.

    It's just a test for those who want to see the game w/o cards, if even for just a little bit. Try it the next time your playing a new character.
     
  8. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    ~That's Healthy Well Balanced Criticism~
    [​IMG]

    :oops:~Let's Take a Look at it~
    It's targeted, well informed and thoroughly investigated, strait to the point of our crowd funded and player based creative system.
    #1) is about the finest idea I've heard because it, in itself hits the nail on the head of how to better inform our new players how best to enjoy our Card Deck System.
    #2) Player's deeper ability into customizations I'm sure has a place for being a continuing part of what our players will come to expect from our game, yet currently our Portalarium Staff is busy spit shining our shoes right now for our 24/7 roll out.
    #3) "This only makes for better play with far less finger dancing which plagues our entire computer gaming industry's haunted house of horrors for the common player's ease of usability."

    @GraveDncer , The Time Lord is a very happy member of your fan club and you've made it onto my "forums follow list" for sure!
    I also don't know if many players that have been interested in our SOTA player idea development, to have taken advantage of our forum's following feature to become a much better informed and knowledgeable contributor. To any of those players that are interested in becoming a better contributor, I hope that you do "check out who all the players that I follow are", as it is most of these players which very much help the Time Lord to continue spitting out loads of information from my wonderful pseudo SOTA intellect, which makes me sound much more intelligent than I actually am... :confused:~The Time Lord~ is just well read on many of our SOTA subjects, and spend much of my time continually babbling out the well informed words of others as if I actually know something... without the foggiest clue of what I'm actually saying at all... :D
    Thanks @GraveDncer , I'll be following you because I not only role play the part of Ultima's most famous notorious kidnappers... "I'm Also a Serial SOTA Forums Stalker" o_O'
    I'm heading off this thread now because it's so well informed before anyone notices that I'm not wearing any pants in the picture above... :)
    ~Time Lord~;)!'
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
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  9. GraveDncer

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    Well thanks! My first stalker, Is there a steam achievement for that? :D
     
  10. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    You get the Eddie Murphy nod & booger behind the ear reward :)!'
    Exclusively only to our Steam Community Early Backing Members...
    ~"Congratulations"~:D!'
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    ~Time Lord~:)!'
     
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  11. Quenton

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    ?? what is Dallas Mode
     
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  12. Time Lord

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    ~The Dallas Mode~:oops:
    The Dallas mode is an entire fixed set of cards to choose from, all locked and much easier to use for a more basic playing style :)
    I sometimes use a Dallas Mode when I'm just out collecting hides because it's so easy...
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
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  13. agra

    agra Avatar

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    Yeah, this is yet another breakdown of the system. As you gain the ability to have more cards in the deck, the disparity of deck size vs. # of hotkeys becomes very apparent.
    You can be vastly more effective with a smaller deck, yet one of the so-called advantages of gaining in skill is the ability to put more cards in the deck, which is actually worse.
    Just another example of a poorly thought out and poorly implemented core system. Especially given every emergent behavior turns the randomness into predictable. So, by taking away the one thing that makes it unique, it's better? Maybe that thing that makes it unique isn't so good? ;) Maaaaaybe.

    Once again, if the design goal is simply "put this one/bunch of glyphs on this/these hotkey(s)" we don't need a random deck system with slugs.
     
  14. Berek

    Berek Portalarian Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    Funny, is it from our Dallas? :)
     
  15. Spoon

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  16. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    ~Err Umm yes Dallas, but it's from our @dallas ~:D
    Because he liked using a more easy fixed deck as I recall it when they themselves were test playing it before we got the card combat system :) @Berek
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  17. Otha Livinded

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    As a fairly large money backer of Shroud of the Avatar and a huge fan of all of the Ultimas, I am profoundly disappointed in how anti-roleplaying friendly and immersion breaking Shroud's clumsy and inappropriate combat system is. Virtually everyone I've talked to in game dislikes or hates it.

    In polls, even the loyal fanbase has consistently rated it horrible- yet, the devs and Richard simply ignored the very sensible idea of dropping it for a more RPG friendly system that did away from the more abstracted notion of decks and cards.

    It's a case of one or two designers stubbornly latching onto an idea from another genre game, and deciding to force it into heavy role-playing game where it had no chance of fitting, come hell, high water, and abandonment from the loyal fan base who supported Richard's winners like Ultima Online.

    It was a horrible design choice that will forever haunt what might have been a great RPG.

    I am aware of over a score of people I personally know who played with me in UO, who pledged to Shroud and have now left for good- and that's just people I'm personally acquainted with. Even though they pledged heavily- they are gone before the game is even fully released.

    This bodes horribly for Shroud's future.

    It's too bad RG decided to ignore the very vocal- impossible to miss voices that would have played this game for a decade on the poorly thought out scheme by some bullheaded designers who lacked the vision to even see that Shroud is, at it's foundations, an RPG based around an AVATAR that the player inhabits and believes it.

    Any combat system that abstracts the basic premise of your RPG character in personal danger from specific monsters- one that eschews smashing swords into shields in favor of idiotically abstracted card dithering was bound to fail. The proof is when you look at the game's other systems- ones that model building/ownership of a house, and it's contents in a fairly realistic manner, or cutting down trees, and crafting stuff in a way that seems real- and simply compare these elegant, immersive systems to the clunky, abstracted combat that drags you out of character every time.

    It's a major fail.
     
  18. fyrhuf

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    interesting. I'm actually really enjoying the combat. got my glyphs selected, but not locked, to preferred slots, auto attack off, and im all out of bubble gum.
    ah well, guess ya cant please everyone
     
  19. Otha Livinded

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    That's true. Unfortunately, the people who are displeased tend to be the role players who have loyally followed RG's games for what seems like forever. The combat system might be wonderful for those who want a more abstracted card gaming type experience.

    It's just crap if you want to roleplay your avatar.

    Perhaps if the game were named "Shroud of the DECK" and was touted as something in the spirit of Magic the Gathering, masses of hard core RPG gamers who played UO would have stayed far away and not be so disappointed today.
     
  20. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    You do realize that Magic the Gathering is turn based and absolutely nothing like this right?

    And combat systems have no real bearing on roleplaying, right?
     
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