PVP News from the R30 Hangout today...

MPO at all for that matter, PvE or PvP.

 

The bottom line is this. Removing non multiplayer shardfalls, PVP Pots, or any other PVP only scene from the game, is a way to get sheep to wolves. No other statement needs to be made.

I am against this.

 

Risk vs reward.

 

Aye, this is important for you. You and others have used this catch phrase often. Still, all I see is someone wanting me (and those with a similar mind set ) to play the game thier way. I am not asking you too play it my way, so what's the rub? Leave it the way it is, and I promise, the only zone in the whole game I won't visit will be Rat's Nest. Out of respect for the way you want the game to be played. But please, leave the rest of it for others to play as they see fit.

 

Actually, you do want me to play your way. You want me to ignore the exploitation and weakening of a PvP zone for the sake of your playing style.

Just imagine for a moment if we flipped the world upside down and applied your logic. The entire game would be open PvP and Shardfalls would be the only safe zones. And someone said, "No, that's not fair. I should be allowed to ignore the entire point of the safe zone and attack people. I should be able to raise the risk while lowering the rewards of this zone because having only 95% of the world the way I want it just isn't enough."

Imagine the audacity that must require.

 

I played this game once. they lost subscribers faster than they could gain them. until they introduced a place called Trammel.

I never asked you to play my way. I asked you to allow me to play my way. Not the same thing. I am not claiming that the game is or isn't being exploited, for or against PvP or Non PvP. I am attempting to do the same thing you are attempting to do. Make my voice heard, and my desires as understood as yours.

If you consider this audacious, good on you.

 

I'm not trying to silence you, I'm pointing out where I think your logic is incorrect.

You want and ask for Trammel. But I do not ask or want for Felucca. Those two moons collided years ago and what remains is a world that has consensual PvP, not disregard for its existence. If we are to share this world you must respect our right to own a piece of it. Otherwise, PvP becomes a nuisance that is easily ignored and an inconsequential past time, as if being able to bake bread in a first person shooter. We deserve to be a part of this world, to have our playing style supported. We must consent to your rules by default every day we log into the game. It seems only fair that you would consent to our rules when you visit scenes made for PvP.

 

Sounds like a a great solution to me. We don't care about the resources, we just really like the Shardfall zones and would rather not have one zone style excluded from FO mode.

 

MPO is already fully supported for PVP everywhere, shardfalls included. All you're asking for is that one group of PVP'ers have their playstyle negatively affected. Not cool! Why should FO mode players have shardfalls excluded from FO mode? Because we like to PvP? How is that logical?

This is a bad precedent. Reducing content by online mode is not a path you want to see Portalarium start down. Next it'll be this isn't available in MPO, or SPO, if FO falls to the wayside. It's not worth it. Mode equality!

 

Is multiplayer or PvP available in single player dungeons? Can I attack anyone I want in Owl's Head? It seems the only modes that are allowed to block playing styles are the ones that are not PvP. But PvP zones are not getting the same respect.

Shardfalls were not made for you and your friends anymore than single player dungeons were. Can I play in friends only mode with you if I'm not on your friends list?

 

Yes they are. Currently, today, MPO mode players can go into any shardfall and enjoy PvP. Just like FO mode. You're asking for a negative change for FO mode players to have that freedom to PvP removed from Shardfalls. You want fewer opportunities for FO players to PvP. It's a bad change for FO players.

Respectfully, I will await the decision of the developers (to reduce yet again their target demographic and break another kickstarter promise, yes, FO mode is in kickstarter) before I take your word for it on core design decisions.

 

Friends only mode is limited just as all modes are. The design of PvP zones is larger than the desires of you and your friends. Shardfalls were designed specifically for multiplayer PvP.

Your expectations are not reasonable. It's like if I said I wanted friends only mode to work in the Necropolis even though it wasn't designed for more than a single player and I would be creating a dozen avoidable exploits by doing that.

 

That is terrible news. *Sigh* Guess it's time to remove my PVP flag. I wish I could say I had fun while the flag was up, but this entire release I probably only ran into about 3 other people who were flagged. Maybe someday, when it comes to this, the Devs will get off of the kool-aid. I'm really losing hope though.

 

Except it won't. It won't achieve anything of any value.

I am 100% against restricting scenes to any specific mode. Every scene should be availble in every mode, it's the content within the scenes that should be different.

The view that restricting scenes to multiplayer will get more people into PvP scene is so floored and wrong it's unbelievable. There is no way near enough incentive to enter those scenes in the first place.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with PVP zones being available in single player or offline modes as long as the benefits aren't there, IE. rarer, more abundant resources, COTO's. .etc.

 

If there is no way to farm resources or experience, that does remove the largest exploit. However, currently you can move into a Shardfall, PVP Ruin, or PVP POT, log off somewhere in the scene while in Friends Only mode (which is really single player online mode if you don't have any friends with you) and then reappear in the same place within multiplayer mode by logging out and back in. This creates problems for PVP and PVE. Imagine skipping all the hard parts of a scene (without players or Mobs) and then reappearing where you're safe. Some have suggested that the way to counter that is to require anyone in SPO or FO to start back at the beginning of the scene on login. However this allows for players to escape the scene using an exploit.

There's also the idea that perhaps a scene is not supposed to be explored in complete safety. Maybe it's more of an achievement to map out a scene like Verdantis Shardfall when you could be killed at any point by another player or monster? In the case of my POT, I plan to have a maze like effect that is not supposed to be easy to maneuver around. So allowing people to explore it, and learn the lay of the land without any risk is very troubling to me.

As much as I understand that there could be a real desire to play with friends in any of the scenes, there are already scenes that are restricted (by design) for different modes. It's not a reduction in content, it's a way to make the game as good as it can be. Friends Only mode is just that, it's a mode. It's not a separate stand alone game. If someone chooses to be in that mode then they need to accept whatever restrictions come with that mode. Selective Multiplayer doesn't mean you get to exploit the content of the game to your own advantage despite what it might do to everyone else's playing experience, it means you get to choose between Single Player Offline, Single Player Online, Friends Only, and Multiplayer modes that all work differently to allow you to have a different playing experience (not a modified one that ignores design and balance).

 

This change is a simple valid viable solution to the problem that occurs when a player bypasses a simple mechanic by entering a PvP area In single player or Friends only and in friends only a player can ensure they are the only one there so . . . . Any other type of PvP a group wants to participate in can be accomplished in many other ways.

This solution works, sorry no argument about from a PvP POV has much substance.

 

....Aaaaaand I'm gone!

Flagging oneself as Open-PvP is now a completely useless feature. Going in a PvP zone, sure... MAYBE I'll go there. Flagging as PvP in any other zone, forget it. Never going to happen unless some ******* decides to jump in front of my attacks and force-flags me.

Worse offender is their reasoning: "It's the standard", Star says... you guys should re-evaluate how other games do it; mainly in how the other game's worlds are segregated. Because it's totally NOT THE SAME!

 

the standard sucks

 

I honestly don't know about this "standard". Is this really how other games do it? Which ones? I was surprised to hear that from Starr. I'm not saying it's not correct, I guess I just don't play those types of games. There's probably a reason for that.

I've never played EQ or WOW in my life (seriously that's not an over exaggeration) because it was obvious that the pvp would be so meaningless and "arena style" that trying to roleplay or have pvp be integrated with roleplay would a waste of time. Instead, I attempted to put my efforts into Shadowbane and Darkfall Online but those didn't work out either. This was for a multitude of reasons and not just because the games were gank fests. But yeah, the standard I assume is in games that I usually don't want to play or go near.

@Berek
@DarkStarr
@Chris

I think the reasoning I've provided in this thread already is about as good as it can get (for all topics in the OP). I hope this is considered in the on-going discussions. Who the standard is working for is probably not who it should be working for. I can tell you that based on my experience I would expect this type of mechanic to be a tool of grief. I know a lot of people like to foreshadow doom and demise of mechanics they don't like, but the way to tell if this is working is to watch how quickly people unflag and return to the safety of the Oracle's protection after being in one of these blue healer fights. My assumption is that you won't find the majority of people hanging out in open pvp, you'll find them going back to reset their traps (unflagged) again for the next person.