The Sword of Midras Question.

Somehow this reminds me, how the granted discount for pledging early has been taken away completely from backers, who upgraded their pledges later, after the discounted prices were expired, instead of making them only pay for the difference between there current pledge LEVEL and the undiscounted price.
Well, even worse for those, wo purchased the book separately as add-on. (Unless they can swap the book still for store credit.)

 

Starting to become a very typical trend with this mob.

Remember the promises of features at the start? Many of us increased our pledges as more interviews and details were released in the hopes we'd hit stretch goals and give the developers the capability to include more. And what do they do? Take the money but then create additional stretch goals at an extra cost.... AFTER the initial budget was met.

 

I've already had my say on this, but I had to bite on this.

Yes, they would have known from the beginning that they would probably want to publish the book eventually. Yes, they would have known from the beginning that publishing the book would involve massive editing of the book. (Tracy is not new to this concept) And yes, they should have told us, that the version we were getting via pledges, is not the final version of the book(s) if it is eventually published, but only the first draft they complete. That small exclusion is why people feel justified to complain about the current situation.

And if they truly had no idea they were going to try and publish the book eventually, or didn't realize they hadn't told us Blade of the Avatar was just a first draft and we weren't pledging for the completed work, then a letter of apology would normally be expected in this situation.

I like having a special 'working draft' of the story, signed and collectible. But that's not what I was told I was getting. Changing the title is lawyering us. They say 'DLMB'... but that goes both ways! 'don't lawyer us, Portalarium!' We love the game, and only want to be treated honestly and openly. Thanks.

 

To offer an opposing viewpoint.

Here is what was promised as a part of the (now expired) $25 First Responder pledge:



What we received as a Digital Reward was exactly as advertised: The Serialized, Shroud of the Avatar novel by Tracy Hickman. This is a Delivered and Fulfilled Pledge Reward. Everyone eligible has received the promised reward.

The Physical reward for the same Serialized, Shroud of the Avatar Novel by Tracy Hickman began at the Patron level, with the Signed copy as a pledge reward beginning at the Citizen level. (My hand is cramping at the thought)
The Physical (in many cases signed) reward is to be exactly as promised... A printed version of the already fulfilled Digital Reward. Nothing more, nothing less.

No one is being cheated here. No apology required for exactly doing what you said you were going to do.

 

You are quite right. I've gone back and reread this myself in the past couple days.. It seemed odd that I felt the need to do this, but my reason is quite clear. It was because, this 'new book' The Blade of Midras, is also the same 'Serialized, Shroud of the Avatar Novel by Tracy Hickman'. As the book was being written, our PDF was updated, and then as it was edited after the story was completed, our pdf continued to be updated. Now, it's being edited some more, but our PDF is not being updated. And the updated (edited version) will be retitled and sold separately as a different book. Even though it's really the same story just edited some more... And that's the truth.

 

I'm sorry to say that this was my first reaction as well. Somehow the pledge reward suddenly felt ... incomplete.

But on more thought I saw the reward as getting to read most of the story a year early before publication.

 

Being right by wording and being right by expectations caused by this wording... it is not good if both differ. Especially if this happens more than one time in the same project.

 

Serialised suggests one book in a SERIES. Not the same book to be re-released... that would be a version/edition...

 

What would you have if you had a mass produced hardback?
What will you have when you have an earlier version of that same hardback of which there are only a couple thousand copies?

Choose to be upset if you wish... But be clear that it certainly is a choice.

 

No... Serialized means released in pieces... Such as the original version of Ender's Game which was serialized in Analog before it was this put into novel form, had material added to it, and then published in Hardback. Personally, I thought the novella serialized in Analog was the best version of Ender's Game, but the Novel certainly made Mr. Card more money. I certainly never felt offended because I had bought those several issues of Analog, and here was now this novel on the shelf that was the same story I'd purchased already.

 

Not that anyone will listen to me. Not that this will change anyone's minds. But here's the reality...

They probably didn't have the option to "give it away to all the backers" because a new publisher (Tor) probably bought the distribution rights to the story.

Now, you can look at this as an individual and say "well I shouldn't have to pay more to get the full version", and I would feel for you because I feel the same way. It doesn't feel "right". HOWEVER, it's not wrong and here's why. They gave you exactly what they said they would give you (us), a novel by Tracy Hickman about Shroud of the Avatar. Just like when someone sells you a copy of book XYZ and later reprints that book with a new forward or with new chapters or a new cover, you don't get a free copy of the new book. Again, that's just reality.

But here's the part that should really mean something to people. If the book gets more attention for the game, and because of it we get more players to come in and try it out, that's good for everyone right?

So at the end of the day if your choices were, A: Get a book with 4 more chapters but don't get a publisher to mass produce and market it to people that haven't already played the game, or B: Have to pay more for 4 more chapters of a book that you already have and essentially know the ending to, but have an opportunity to help grow this game by reaching people that haven't heard of the game yet, which would you choose? Because that's essentially what it all comes down to.

Please try to think beyond yourself people. I know that your first reaction is to think that you're getting screwed here, mine was too. But if you really look at what this is, not only is no one getting screwed it's also a huge positive for the game overall.

I bought a kindle version and a hardcover version. I can't wait to read the four new chapters.

 

So they suck at negotiation then?
if they wanted to they would have just made distributing the backer rewards part of the publication deal.

Who would have pledged early for this knowing they were going to get an inferior product? I certainly wouldn't have. If they were releasing as paperback only then it is fine that we get paperback but to pledge early to ensure its written and then getting a cut down paperback for FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS is a joke, it is a slap in the face

Its funny (in a sad way) the way people defend stuff like this, "your getting exactly what you paid for", maybe in the letter of the law version but certainly not the spirit of whats promised. RG stated on multiple occasions that he wants to make sure early backers are looked after and this is not the way to do it

I look at the way this company is acting and then I look at how CD Projekt Red treated people who bought Witcher 3 and guess which company I have better feelings for. I hunted down the copy of the expansion pack for the witcher to pay more because THEY make me feel valued as a customer. These guys? just make me feel taken advantage of

 

I wonder if Tor has fans that are second guessing their business decisions too? Or maybe people assume they know what they're doing because they are professionals that have a lot of experience? Gee who else do we know like that?

The only slap in the face here is fans that can't deal with reality or can't see the big picture. Unfortunately, that's a very common theme when we're talking about fans that follow game development.

Please do me a favor and save some outrage for a legitimate problem.

 

this is how a company actually provides a good valuable product

 

But this isn't being released in pieces. It's the same book with extras attached. It's not a new piece.

It's mostly the same piece with a little extra. If we could buy the next number in the SERIES, rather than buying the same book with a little extra included, that would eliminate the entire issue here.

But I like this description on the kindle page:

"At the Publisher's request, this title is being sold without Digital Rights Management Software (DRM) applied."

So.... why can't it be included again? There is literally nothing stopping this book from being distributed freely.

 

I haven't read BotA simoly because it was never put into a proper readable format. Making sure the background story was put in wide reaching formats seems like an important thing to me. And now an expanded novel that you have to pay for comes out and will be in multiple standard formats...doesn't quite seem right to me. If BotA needed to be finished it shouldve just been finished and offered once done as a pledge item for those who met the deadline.

 

The Pledge Reward most certainly was.

Ender's Game was originally published in Analog, later added to and published as a novel. Same story with extras attached. Should I have expected to receive a copy of the hardback novel because I bought Analog?

If you choose to feel slighted because Portalarium did exactly what they promised they would do, there is naught I can do about that.

 

I agree with this. I too, have BotA and tried every possible way to convert PDF format into something more suitable for e-book device, and failed. Now, I just read it in PDF format and waiting for Sword of Midras to release. I also wish they could provide backers with more than PDF format(EPUB, MOBI, etc.), sadly that didn't happen, and seems it never will.

 

It's not the same thing though. They DID release Blade of the Avatar in a serialised format. It was listed as exclusive and serialised. And we were given the final chapter a while ago... and now they've decided to add more to it at an additional cost and it's now no longer exclusive (not that I wanted it because it was exclusive, I absolutely detest exclusivity in this day and age). You get the same book and more for additional cost. That is dodgy. A twist on words to squeeze a little extra.

The right thing to do would to have taken the next chapters into a new book. A second book in the SERIES. Not a reiteration of the same instalments.

What next? We going to pay for patches between episodes? "You paid for the release of the game". Not "post release". If you want the "Revised Episode 1" you'll need to re-purchase the game? Because that fulfils the same criteria. You got the initial release of the game which is all you paid for.