Sexual Harassment, Religious Zealotry, Racism-A Definitive Guide to Stopping it in SOTA

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Blake Blackstone, Jun 24, 2016.

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  1. Brass Knuckles

    Brass Knuckles Avatar

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    I think there are a couple conversations here that are important. Leaving the super obvious harrasment and eula violator aside.

    There is the "I am easy offended" one and those that look forward to finding offensive material just so they can have a reason to rage. People do need to realize other people play this game and im sure it will if not already have a mature rating. I my self am not looking for a kiddie/heavily sensored game.

    I enjoy adult bantor from time to time.
     
  2. Greyfox

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    How can you send a book in game? You have to ACTIVELY find the book. Actively click on the book and ACTIVELY read the book.

    I could understand if very descriptive sexual content was emailed to an unsuspecting person.
     
  3. Drocis the Devious

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    Leave the people that are offended out of this. We don't have any idea if they're seriously offended or not. Just because you or I might not be offended doesn't take away another person's right to be offended. Once we start parsing intent based on our own value system we become insulting. Just like some people troll those that are offended by something just to be jerks, I can't tell who's who. Are they just insensitive ignoramuses, or are they people that like hurting other people for the heck of it?

    I don't want to have a heavily censored game either. But that doesn't mean I endorse chaos as a way to mange that.
     
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  4. Greyfox

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    I'm offended being compared to an animal. I'm offended by children suffering.
    If we adjust content based upon anything offensive, what will be left?

    http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/03/blizzard-removing-overwatch-butt-pose-after-fan-complaint/
     
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  5. Kether

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    Yeah, it's not the same point, but it might be related.
    Let me expand this example with what could be in game-cases, noting that I don't know the specific circumstances about the original complain that originated this discussion, nor I pretend to represent them in any case.

    So, let's imagine a player makes a book about the obsidian child abuse I wrote earlier. Then another player, who roleplays an obsidian follower, finds it and decides to make copies and leave them in random public caches because, well, obsidians are twisted in that way. Then, of course, one of these unwanted recipients gets offended by the content. The questions (with my opinions) are:
    -Does the recipient have the right to be offended and complain? Of course.
    -Does that count as harassment? I do not think so.
    -Has the "distributor" the right to distribute such material to unwanted recipients? This is where it gets complicated. From a pure role-play perspective, yes, he should. But we're dealing with real people here, and not all even roleplay at all. So I think the sensible thing here would be to say that explicit content shouldn't be distributed without consent (same as PvP). I wouldn't punish him too harshly if this were his first offense, though, but I'd issue a warning.
    -Does the book with graphic material has to be removed from the game? Absolutely not! The book isn't guilty of anything, and other people might enjoy its contents.

    Other, much different case, would be if the book were delivered directly to one person, knowing that it will offend that person. Or if the content itself were directed towards a specific person. Those are a direct attack to a player and should be addressed and acted on swiftly.
     
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  6. Drocis the Devious

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  7. Womby

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    You don't have to be graphic. For example I placed this note next to a skeleton:

    My dearest Christine,

    I know that you will never read this, and for that I am truly sorry.
    They will tell you that I deserted, and in a sense that is true. I won't describe the unspeakable things that I have done while stationed here.
    Had I objected I would have joined the victims, and I lacked the courage to stand up for the defenceless.

    This morning we were told that the next group of prisoners to arrive would be children, as the young were more malleable.

    As I said, I lack the courage to stand up for the defenceless, so I am taking the only escape possible.

    Forgive me.

    The reader can imagine things that are as bad or worse than anything I could describe.
     
  8. evillego6

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    I leave a book for Player X in a public chest in their town. Player X finds material offensive and reports material to Portalarium who finds said material came from Player Y and that the material is in clear violation of the EULA. Player Y is contacted and admits to leaving said material for Player X in the chest and says that they do not feel the material should be deemed offensive.

    Or Player X receives message from Player Y stating 'I left a book for you in your public chest'. Player X goes to chest, finds said book and finds the material is offensive. Player X contacts Portalarium, see above for rest.
     
  9. Drocis the Devious

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    This is where you lost me. I doubt that Portalarium will be in favor of protecting authors that write graphic novels about child abuse. As twisted as the Obsidians are, roleplaying can be accomplished without detailed accounts of how children were abused. Just eluding to it would be enough for any author worth their salt.

    This is an important thing to understand too, because this is what will allow our community to have the maximum amount of freedom, having a connection to generally accepted social norms.
     
  10. Kether

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    Oh, of course. But there might be cases when one does want to be graphic. My question is, should that be punishable? I do not expect (and I wouldn't want) SotA player literature to be a gore-fest but, should it be prohibited?

    (P.S.: Love your example :D )
     
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  11. Drocis the Devious

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    In the case of the REAL lore narrative I was given while at the Duke Round Table last month, there was a clear limit to the graphic quality that was being portrayed. Most adults would clearly understand what was going on in these scenes, but the acts themselves were not being shown (or not planned to be shown as I understood it). So I believe player created content can easily live up to that standard and it would be consistent through the game.

    Can you elude that sex occurred? Probably. Can you go into graphic details about the event? No. That would be my guess.
     
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  12. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    Yes, if it violates the EULA.
     
  13. Kether

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    Let me rephrase that... Should it be prohibited in the EULA? (which can always be changed by port) :p

    Well, in that case, I think we should have clear guidelines on where the line is. I don't mind player content having to abide to a certain "editorial line", making all SotA narrative consistent, as long as the rules are clear and consistent.

    But even leaving the graphic explicity out of my example, I think it still holds. A player might still find content (even in line with Port's standards) objectionable, and has all the right to express their opinion, but that doesn't mean that content should be removed from the game, nor it is harassment unless it is directly addressed to a specific person (that's what I meant when I said that the circumstances are more important that the content in most cases).
     
  14. Drocis the Devious

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    Well, I wouldn't expect that editorial line to be any more concrete here than it would be in the rest of the world. Meaning that it's going to be measured on a case by case basis, so smart authors would be very VERY conservative.

    As for harassment, I believe once someone tells someone else to stop, it's very important to stop. That said, this is also going to happen on a case by case basis, so the author of any book should be very conservative in their approach. That's the reality.
     
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  15. Brass Knuckles

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    Woah hold the horses here, I was talking in general terms and not this thread specific. Did you miss that? If I got offended because you like the oracle and I find it offensive because I could view it as a religious symbol should I report you and make angry posts no..

    Dont go all squirly on me, I very clearly said setting aside the harrasment and eula violators.
     
  16. Drocis the Devious

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    I wasn't suggesting you were pointing your finger at anyone in particular, I was suggesting that your stance could be insulting to anyone that legitimately took offense to anything. That's the entire problem with the OP, it discriminates broadly against anyone that dare be offended. That's wrong.

    As for your Oracle example, I'd liken that to the guy that said he was scared of spiders so we should remove them from the game. No one needed to mock him or make fun of him. Portalarium simply had to decide if they should comply with that request or not. I'm happy they kept the spiders in the game, but I also feel for the guy because that made him uncomfortable.

    See how that works? If someone feels like their religion makes them uncomfortable with the Oracle, I'm sorry they feel that way but I'm happy that Portalarium hasn't removed the Oracle from the game. There's no need for me to attack people that feel differently than I do, individually or broadly.
     
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  17. Kether

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    Well, there are very successful books out there that are quite disturbing in almost every imaginable sense and aren't banned (in most democratic countries, at least). While I agree that prudence is always a good companion, I don't think forcing all the authors to be very conservative by default, without clear guidelines, is a good idea and would definitely hinder creativity. I don't disagree with limits, as long as they're clear.

    On the other side, distribution is another different topic: Anyone wanting to distribute content to complete strangers, specially in a direct way (dropping them in public chests, mailing or however they manage to) should be extremely conservative. If you suspect some content could be deemed offensive to someone, be sensible: ask first.
     
  18. Brass Knuckles

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    Not trying digress from the topic to much ill follow that up with..

    If im offended by any form of killing (especially bunnys) pve and pvp but I like crafting and the social aspect of this game. Should portalarium remove all combat to satisfy my feelings.

    There needs to be some common sense here and people need to be taken with a grain of salt (unless your alergic to salt).

    Again before you go there, im not talking about obvious eula violators or harrassment stuffs.
     
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  19. Leostemplar

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    As matter of fact, I've seen whole countries ignore racism, poverty, violence, sexism and many other ills of the barbaric age that humankind is trying to overcome.
    And I can assure you that the inaction of this ignorant folk (that is the meaning of ignorancy, to ignore something...) never helped to solve any of those problems.

    So, if you are a victim, yes: block and ignore. This is step one.
    Step two: Report and shout. Never allow this kind of bestiality to go unnoticed or unpunished.

    I find any attempt to depreciate the suffering of a victim or the guilt of the harasser extremely inhuman.

    Peace,
    Leos.
     
  20. Ravicus Sales

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    the drinking in game is offensive and might lead to the children playing the game to become alcoholics later in life. That should be removed from the game as well. There should be no looting at all in the game also as it might be offensive behavior and promote theft in real life. Just remove the looting features.
     
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