TenTonHammer: Crafting Article (Wednesday 9th October)

Discussion in 'Crafting & Gathering' started by Eligor, Oct 9, 2013.

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  1. Eligor

    Eligor Avatar

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  2. Phredicon

    Phredicon Avatar

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    Great find, there is either info in there I've managed to completely miss, or some new details have been released.
     
  3. Baene Thorrstad

    Baene Thorrstad Avatar

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    Very cool ideas
     
  4. Vyrin

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    Yeah thanks for posting - easy to miss all the news!
     
  5. FireLotus

    FireLotus Royal Bard & Master Dabbler Dev Emeritus

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    You can always check out the latest SotA news on our news page. :cool:
     
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  6. vjek

    vjek Avatar

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    " ... but what makes this system unique is that you may never know everything you could make. Sure there'll be recipes that you can buy from in-game vendors just like every-other game on the planet, but not all recipes are available via in-game looted written form or from vendors. ... "

    So, not all from vendors, and not all via in-game looted written form. hrm. Ominous.​

    " ... If I can create some level 2 blacksmithing recipe, you can create that recipe. I can just tell you, `here's how you make it.' You don't have to buy it and once you've done it that first time, it'll be copied into your recipe book so you can remember how to do it," says Richard Garriott. ... "

    So, nothing stopping me from giving away every recipe I know, for free. I like it.​

    " ... Enchanting in Shroud of the Avatar will not be something that's included in the recipe creating the base object. Enchanting will be an extra step that someone will have to take after the item has actually been crafted. ... "

    Excellent. Logical and reasonable, best point in the article.​

    " ... I was curious why would I ever bother with enchantments if I were already a spell-slinger, then? Starr answered, "Our combat system works in such a way that you may not always have the spell you want prepared at a given time. The benefit of casting a specific spell on an item and having that item equipped is that you have that spell there and constantly available as long as you have charges left." ... "

    Ah, so we're still going with temporally random card/deck/rune/symbol combat fighting the UI instead of monsters, are we? More ominous. And what about stat enchanting, not spell enchanting? What about procs, +damage types, +target-type-damage-modifiers. Creating charged staffs and wands is great, but is a very very very small part of the range of "enchantments" that is typical in the genre.​

    " ... Richard Garriott points out, "We've got to do something with all the swords anyway, so rather than just delete them from the game, let's just keep those swords we swept up. When we need some treasure out in the world, we'll just populate that treasure with player-made stuff first. So you might loot a sword somewhere and see that it was made by a friend, and that's just cool." ... "

    It's unfortunate that other mechanics to handle crafted items weren't enumerated. It's also unfortunate that finished products and/or dungeon loot will evidently sell, directly, for gold, to NPCs. I hate to be the one to point this out, but if you pay one player 10g for a chair, then when a second player finds that same chair in a dungeon, and you pay that second player ANOTHER 10g for it, that's really not such a good thing. o_O Repeat that 20 or 200 times, and what does it sound like? Yeah. That ominous feeling, it's there again.​
     
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  7. Knoxinn

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    I wouldn't go as far as "ominous." I took it as a 4 option system. One may get recipes from a looted corpse, a vendor, by another player and lastly by a quest. I'm thinking the fourth option that you will learn from a Master NPC, get one through a Virtue-based quest, and then others...who knows? By region (which would be cool) maybe? In any event, it should be interesting to see how that aspect works out.

    But the other bits of information....hmmm...have to mull those over some more...especially the player-crafted items being redistributed as loot. I agree with you Vjek...I get an ominous feeling over that one as well.
     
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  8. bdo7

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    I take it to mean that some recipes MUST be discovered by trial and error.

    And if those are high-level recipes with expensive ingredients, there's a chance that some of them may never be discovered at all.

    ...but what if you're the tinkerer who DOES discover one?

    Personally, I think that's extremely poignant and cool. Certainly never been done before.

    Hooray for independent publishing!
     
  9. AndiZ275

    AndiZ275 Avatar

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    I love most of the things I read and especially, that you don't have access to all your skills all of the time. I really hope they stick to their Rune/Deck idea since I'm not a fan of those standard rotations in MMOs, that you are forced to do all the time, but have to pay attention to what you are doing...

    Also the idea of letting sold items reappear as loot is just awesome :) (wonder when I'll find the first "Badass Broadsword of Badassitude", since players can get quite creative with their weapon names :p)
     
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  10. Fox Cunning

    Fox Cunning Localization Team

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    Umm how would a second player find that chair in a dungeon if you have it in your home/backpack? They may find a second, identical chair made by the same crafter and I don't see anything wrong with it.
    What if I buy a cupboard from Argos, and then I find an identical one at the Range for the same price and buy it too so I have two identical cupboards? I don't see anything ominous here.

    Same with recipies: I can buy a specialized book, watch Great British Menu on the BBC, ask my granmother how to make a good lasagna, or just try to combine some ingredients until I craft a never seen before vegetarian pork pie and then write it down for the next time... what's the problem?

    The only thing I still don't like is the random combat where you may potentially never be able to use the skills you are most proficient with, if the RNG really hates you. :(
     
  11. ZooK

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    Nice article with some compelling new info.
    Enchanting sounds particurally interesting. Would need to hear more about combat to get a better idea of the gaps its trying to fill.
     
  12. stile

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    *grins* tell em Firelotus!I had this article show up in my email box last night from 3 sources, and in two different rss feeds.. Then published the info on my news feed to top it off.
     
  13. Knoxinn

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    "Never been done before"...well...sort of.

    I played a Bio-Engineer in Star Wars Galaxies. We could make a few things but the main push were clones of animals that other players could use to hunt with. Problem was...they turned out vastly inferior. Many thought the class was utterly broken. But...I'm stubborn. I kept looking at the system. It had various experimental aspects to it (gathering DNA, combining it, etc). After a couple of months and taking copious notes, I began to see a pattern. I got together with 2 other Bio-Engineers on different servers to compare information. We then had that "we can see the Matrix :)" kind of moment. The system wasn't broken, it was just crazy complex.

    From that point, my clones were suddenly much better than just regular animals. I had a pure monoply on the market. I went from the poor crazy little BE (my character was the smallest race in the game) to the insanely rich crazy little BE. I would literally give away free buildings to players that I found interesting or were just polite (being polite goes a long way with me...;)).

    So did SWG actually intend to do what you're describing? I don't know, but it certainly turned out like it. Experimental aspects to crafting and only "elite" crafters producing the highest end goods where most other crafters couldn't produce what they could.

    Now, I do have reservations about an experimental crafting system in SotA...but that's for another post.
     
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  14. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    Well, none of this is really new info. It's all been talked about in various videos.
    Perhaps this is the first time some of it has been in print.

    The part about player crafted items going into the loot system is great.
    They say "some percentage" of items sold to NPC's.
    So, if I craft 1000 swords, and 1% goes into the loot system, that's only 10 swords.
    If all 10 of those are sold back to NPC's, and 1% go into the loot system, that's almost zero.
    I don't see this causing any problems. The percentage could be 0.5% or 0.1%.
    I'm sure Portalarium will track it and adjust as necessary.

    I have pondered the implications of flooding NPC's with thousands of high quality weapons. Would our enemies then start using these fine weapons against us?
    What if we flood the system with dull, brittle weapons?

    And how about we try the combat system and see how it goes? For us older and slower players, with our mad twitch skills 25 years behind us, the proposed system seems like a good idea. I don't see it as fighting the UI. I see it as leveling the field.

    I would prefer magic be rare and powerful, rather than typical. I really hope everybody isn't a mage.
     
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  15. vjek

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    Details like this, while relevant to a degree, aren't what I was trying to emphasize so much. The need to tweak the percentages is indicative of a larger problem.

    It's the fact that you can sell looted items directly, at all, to an NPC directly for gold. This:
    • Bob kills an orc.
    • Bob takes sword408 from the orc, and puts it into his inventory.
    • Bob sells sword408 from his inventory to an NPC for 10g.
    As long as that mechanic is in place, with no other steps in the process, a whole bunch of "really bad things" are going to be possible, in SotA. The least of which is runaway inflation over time, guaranteed. :eek: That's it, that's all that's required.
     
  16. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    I'm going to need help understanding what the issue is. Unlike apparently most of the people here, I don't play every game that comes out, so my experience is a little limited. Please clue me in to some of the issues.
     
  17. Baene Thorrstad

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    I don't quite understand the issue either. What is the difference between that and just getting gold directly from mobs? Maybe I'm missing something...
     
  18. bdo7

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    Is there any game in which you CAN'T sell items to vendors? I'm confused too...
     
  19. Balnir Morlemaine

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    I was talking to a buddy of mine about this article, and the crafting recipe stuff, and he said something interesting.

    "So if you discover a particularly difficult-to-find recipe that lets you make something unique and useful, your motivation to share that recipe rather than have a monopoly on an awesome item is... what exactly?"

    I grinned at him, said, "I hadn't thought of that..." and then decided that maybe this leads to economy complexities that I hadn't considered yet...
     
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  20. Baene Thorrstad

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    Actually, I think that sounds perfect. Why shouldn't they have that edge on the competition if that's what they want?
     
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