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Gathering eats all pooled xp

Discussion in 'Release 33 Bug Forum' started by Last Trinsic Defender, Aug 26, 2016.

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  1. Last Trinsic Defender

    Last Trinsic Defender Avatar

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    Dunno it that is a bug but gathering any ressources costs now points from the pool with no chance to rebuild the pool except with quests. Is this intented so you can't refill the pool with gathering anymore? That has definetly changed since patch and I found no notes going that way.
     
  2. Attenwood

    Attenwood Portalarian Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    How many crafting skills do you have set to train? It's possible you may have too many skills set to train at once which will eat at your experience pool faster than it can be filled.
     
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  3. Last Trinsic Defender

    Last Trinsic Defender Avatar

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    Well - till yesterday gathering increased the pool. Gathering can only affect the four skills which are bound together. (proficiency, survey, swift, meticulous). These are set to "level up". The question is: You can't even get enough xp now to satisfy the xp-needs of these four and add some bonus to the pool? In that case it is a big reduction - maybe too big?
     
  4. Birne Gilmore

    Birne Gilmore Avatar

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    Well, question is if it is intended to be like it is: If I train all 4 skills and want them to go up, I want them to go up quick. To use all the gained xp could be wanted. But honestly: If the pool goes to Zero even if gathering higher nodes (not those of one skull areas, but of those you still can handle) that the consumption may be reduced a bit ^^
     
  5. Sarg

    Sarg Avatar

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    Gathering has never produced enough XP to sustain itself beyond level 70 or so. That's not new to R33, however your character's skill level may have advanced to the point where you are seeing this for the first time.
     
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  6. Last Trinsic Defender

    Last Trinsic Defender Avatar

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    I just looked. All beyond 50 (e.g. field dressing 55-42-42-12). And it got up the day before. I'm no noob and know the skill system very well. And I can detect when it got nerfed.
    But playing with open cards and telling everyone would be nice nevertheless.
     
  7. Snazz

    Snazz Avatar

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    Been testing this today. ~ L80 mining skills. I get around 56xp with only speed/meticulous turned on. Same with only met. Presume more xp is going into the one skill per use (440ish)

    Turn em all off and it's +500 to the pool/whack.

    Seems like you can't get much of a pool increase while skilling. I have no low level gathering skill to test/compare against.

    These tests are 5 skull zones. You will get less from easier zones.
     
  8. sdbaynham

    sdbaynham Avatar

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    :( This is disheartening to hear from a dev. # of crafting skills is not important, average level of all crafting skills is
     
  9. Elwyn

    Elwyn Avatar

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    Actually the level of each crafting skill is very important, because the higher they go, the more XP they suck up.

    You need to turn most or all of them off. As in to any setting other than "Training". In particular, turn off survey distance! The only use it has (except possibly with foraging) is as a blocker to the meticulous gathering skill.

    I turn them all off, and after I've gotten enough XP pool (maybe 70K+), I turn one of them on and keep a watch on it. I turn it off just after reaching a skill level when the pool is down to about 50K, and leave it off.

    Raising a skill that depends on doing something that takes many seconds per use (or consumes reagents) will go faster if you first get a lot of XP before turning it on. This is because each usage pulls more XP when your pool is larger, so you need less uses per skill level. (If it was a passive skill or a quick-to-use ability with no reagent cost, there wouldn't be much of a difference.) You also get to wait to decide what you want to spend your XP pool on.
     
  10. Jezebel Caerndow

    Jezebel Caerndow Avatar

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    Turn them all off, if you gather in a tier 5 zone, you should get 500 xp per node. I will test this and get back to you.
     
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  11. Jezebel Caerndow

    Jezebel Caerndow Avatar

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    Nope I still get 500 per node in tier 5 zone. You need to turn stuff off if you want to gain if your skills are getting high. I have to turn them off and on to level things up. Got my swift field dressing to 100 today. I would just turn all my gathering skills off and build up about 200k, then turn that one skill on, get a few levels in it, then back off at about 50k. Micro managing your skills is a must as higher level.
     
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  12. helm

    helm Avatar

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    At the risk of stating the obvious, there are a few important variables to understand:
    1. Every skill has a specific cost related to it progression, measured in XP. For instance, to get skill A from level 55 to 56, one needs exactly X experience points allocated to that skill. To get skill A from level 73 to 74, one needs exactly Y experience points allocated to that skill - which is a much higher number than X, because the skill learning curve is exponential. The exact amount needed is theoretically skill specific, in practice many skills seem to follow the exact same curve, and even when it doesn't, the curve itself is most likely similarly shaped (so that if skill A needs X points to advance from level 55 to 56, and a more expensive skill B needs X*4 points, then at level 73->74, when skill A needs Y points, skill B will need Y*4 points).
    2. The amount of XP transferred from the main XP pool to the skills is dependent on a few variables, most important ones being the size of the pool and the level of the skill. The larger these values are, the higher is the amount transferred.
    3. Specific events will bring a specific amount of XP to the general pool. For example, as it is currently tuned, the killing of an elder wolf will bring 1150 xp to the adventurer pool. Mining a high level node will bring 500 xp to the crafting pool. Of course, all values are subject to tuning and adjustment.

    If you doubt that something is not working as expected, you can/should measure both 1) and 3) as follows:
    • 3) is measured by locking ALL the skills in the relevant major pool (adventuring or crafting) and doing the specific thing that that you want to measure, that brings new XP to that pool (e.g. killing a monster or mining a node). Simply measure the difference before and after the action.
    • 1) is measured by advancing the skill with a large enough XP pool (and with everything else locked of course), and repeating training events with either zero XP income (gustball is a good tool to measure combat skills) or a known income (for example, if you know that every successful mining attempt will bring in 500 xp a pop, you can factor that in). Measure the change in XP pool size at the very beginning of every level (try to keep the XP pool size itself relatively modest, as a too large pool size may introduce measurement errors)
    • in principle, 2) can also be measured, following the same procedures as when measuring 3), but it is much more tricky interpret because of multiple variables involved.

    Now based on these, a few observations:
    • The relevant things that have an actual effect to the life of the avatar are 1) the actual XP cost of skills and 3) the rate of XP "income".
    • The rate at which XP is transferred from the main pool to the skill, mentioned in item 2) above, is of secondary importance. It is not totally irrelevant, but in many cases it is mostly a matter of convenience. In other words, adjustments affecting this rate do not really change much of anything in the big picture.
    • If working on just one or two skills (keeping other locked), it is usually not necessary to build a large pool. Just keep the other skills locked and play away - XP transfer will happen regardless, more or less at the same rate. The only exception is when the number of "training events" is limited. For example, in the case of mining, the number of training events is, practically speaking, virtually unlimited. On the other hand, if one wants to craft or masterwork items, there is very concrete limitation in the form of available material.

    I have not observed any real issues with these for a long time. Most of the issues reported have been based on misunderstandings of one or more of the above things. The XP related mechanics work well, and need only tuning and balancing perhaps. It's not a bad thing to stay vigilant of course.
     
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