If it's a player driven economy, why NPC vendors?

I can't justify the NPC vendors anymore. It doesn't make sense, and I think that's the problem with trying to balance this economy.

NPC vendors screw up everything in this economy. Nothing that NPC vendors sell or buy is based on TRUE supply and demand.

If I could go out and kill mobs and get swords to sell to players (only) then the players would tell me if my prices were too high or too low. If I went out to gather cotton, the players would tell me if the price was too high or too low. If I went out and farmed a ton of Silver, the players would tell me if it was too high or too low when I tried to sell it.

The NPC's just create an artificial barrier to crafting, gathering, and looting. I understand that they're there as a gold sink, but they're actually hurting the functionality of the economy because they are so REACTIVE. Even the NPC's that change prices for reagents based on how much is purchased are really not helping anything because players can just go down the street to the next town and buy the same product on the cheap.

I'll bet you if we got rid of the NPC merchants this economy would completely fix itself overnight.

@DarkStarr
@Chris
@Bzus

Yes, you'd have to put all the things the NPC's were selling that the players couldn't make into the world (either through the crafting system or through gathering).

 

I agree, It would be cool to phase them out and introduce the fuels into the gathering/crafting formula. As far as gold sinks, we do have taxes (for some), and new ones could be introduced as the old ones take their leave. For example, a small fee to ride the boat from Aerie to Elysium.

 

Or through loot drops. That skeleton had a cubit stuck where!?!

 

I completely disagree. To me, the vendors are a necessary part of the game experience and keep ill-mannered players from holding people hostage with price gouging and shortages.
Additionally, for the most part, I find this player driven economy annoying. I shouldn't have to go from vendor to vendor, checking prices and hoping something is there. I should be able to go to a vendor that has basic goods and purchase them without having to deal with other players.

While there are some parts of the MMO experience that aren't too bad, I absolutely do not want to have to rely on other players to get basic products to enjoy and complete the game. I should be able to get reagents and some furniture items without having to search high and low through town after town. I shouldn't have to involve or rely on other players unless it is my choice.

I shouldn't have to go searching around to find a player vendor to get water or seeds or flour or yeast. Those basic items should be on vendors with a reasonably predictable price.

And I speak specifically of basic items, the regular low level ingredients, not super high end swords and the like. I agree the best gear should be made by players, but I should be able to play and enjoy this game without a dependence on others. That is simply my personal want.

 

...if i decide to go out and gather blackpearl, then... aww damn... where should the regs come from? from players? haha you just killed every mage build.

-1 from me.

 

The vendors are 100% necessary for the long haul, however, it has been said that items will slowly drop off of their inventory when players pick up the slack. Perhaps a system can be set up so that it detects when there is a deficiency and temporarily provides it.

 

-1 as well and I'm not even a Mage

 

Disagree. I'm not saying they work particularly well but they are designed to reflect the macroeconomic conditions in the game. If people gather zillions of wolf pelts and sell them to the leather worker, leather should start getting cheaper.

Players push the NPC economy which then pushes back against the players. If lots of people want leather armor, it can ultimately reward people for hunting wolves.

You don't actually need players to negotiate fact to face to have a working economy.

But again, I don't really expect the systems to be tuned and balanced at this point.

 

WAY too soon for this current nerf plan of yours, @Baron Drocis Fondorlatos .

We just went into persistence a month ago, and people are doing their best to economically survive right now.
You take the basics off the NPC's and you'll be playing alone in another month.

Bad idea, very bad.
Thumbs way down.......

 

No, absolutely not, the last thing i want to be dependent is on players having the 1000 coal (just like anyone else in town doing blacksmithing ) I just needed or having to cross shop the entirety of brittany alleys to sell the loot from my latest expedition. (WTS 50 longbows...just like everyone else in game).

And no the answer is not to make each and every drop meaningful since that will mean GETTING a drop has to become exceedingly rare.

NPCs are the safety gap when players cant or won't provide a place to offload loot or acquire some needed resources.

NPCs already dont sell quality loot, why do you want to run them out of the lowest tier of the economy as well.

 

what the npc vendors do now is guaranteing that certain necessary goods for everyday life are affordable. if i can buy nightshade at the npc vendor for 4g per i wont buy your 4+ and thats a good thing. because otherwise we'd end up a few dominating and raising the prices where you cant play a mage anymore.

maybe i missed something but i havent seen many crafting related items on npc vendors... except the potions and scroll which to some point fall in the category above. if players decide prices theyd soon be 300+.

 

Agreed.

NPC vendors in a self-proclaimed sandbox. Makes me wonder if the devs even know what a sandbox is.

When are people going to realize this is a Sandpark, and just barely.

 

Once the players can produce all the basic goods I think its important to remove more and more NPC trade.

 

No, you should have to go out and find them in-world like all other items.

 

I think the the NPC vendors are necessary; particularly, at the present moment.

Many people are new and just starting out. We can't expect them to run around for an hour to every vendor looking for an item to craft a simple item.

Currently fuels, etc are not found in drops, etc. The ability to farm/harvest such items are not in the game yet.

It's a nice idea in theory; but, nobody wants to pay $45 to log in and be a peon. They want to adventure and quest.

I think it's ok to phase out some items over the long run.

I would also like the ability to either have better filters at the public vendor or turn individual NPC vendors (blacksmith, etc) into public vendors that would sell basic goods, but also sell player crafted/looted items related to their craft. Essentially, a specialized public vendor.

 

Its not even a nice idea in theory. I am not sure where he thinks people will get the gold to use in the 'economy'....I guess all those little drops are supposed to add up.

 

Watch the video above.

Players would lower their prices to compete with other players, organically. Then all the little drops would be much bigger in relation to those prices and the devs wouldn't be constantly "managing" the economy, it would be managing itself.

 

You don't think new people are capable of using a player vendor? They're everywhere.

And before you say "well most of them are empty" there's a reason for that, the economy isn't working very well because of the NPC's. The players could very well sell coal to other players, for example.

Just think about whatever it is you sell to NPC's because you don't need it. Now you could sell that to other players who would probably pay you more for your trouble because they would in-turn use that for something they cared about.

 

in the end i expected to play a game when spending my time in sota and not working some sort of neoliberal economics simulator o.0.

haha youre serious? IF yes (which i doubt) ... get a grip man.