What wrong with us Adult Player! What happend to us in MMOGAMES!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Myrcello, Aug 30, 2016.

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  1. Myrcello

    Myrcello Avatar

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    Hi all.

    Based on current hot Threads i will take my time for my little Blog with you all.

    Topic : Did we forget what a Game is? And the basic understanding of what to expect.


    Childhood Gaming:

    We all have been once children who had a day when we for the first time got the chance to play a
    Board "Game".
    Often a Parent was with us. It was maybe just Mau-Mau, or some simple turn around the same type of cards.

    [​IMG]
    Source: http://www.nilco-int.com/product_images/uploaded_images/family-board-game.jpg


    But for a parent it had one of the fundamental lessons already with it.

    At the end normally there is someone who will Win and someone who will Loose the Game.
    The first Games we often just let the Child always Win as he has no experience with the Emotions of Loosing.

    But the Goal of our parents was to ultimate teach us a Lesson:

    To be able to Enjoy a Game we must be able to accept that the Fun results that both agree that they accept that to be able to feel the "EMOTION" of a Win - you need someone you overcome

    Often a Child will try to cheat to avoid this emotion of loosing. I mean Winning is the Fun part.


    Setback and overcoming them - Part of a Game! - in Childhood we learn

    You will find Board Games that hve different types and a variety of Set Back

    Go to Jail - Monopoly
    Go to Start if you get hit from the other player
    Mensch Ärgere dich nicht ( only know the German Name for the Board Game - it is on the picture)
    Take another card
    Take a break on your turn

    We learn to understand that this is part of a Game.


    Punishments in childhood Games - Part of a Game!

    Hide and Seek - If you are found the punishment is - you have to count and be the one who needs to search

    Catch and Grab - If you are the one who gets catched - your punishment is you need to take over the role.

    Marples - You have to give your Glass Marple to the other player if you loose! ( big punishment all accepted!)

    [​IMG]


    Rules of the Game had to be known before you play, or someone explained it to you.

    The great thing about being a kid and playing a Game is that often the Rules had been sort of "International", "Global" the same.

    No matter where you go you all will know those to games and the same rules:

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Maybe a different counting and such or melody you have.



    Child Games only Punish within the Game Rules -

    Not before, after or based on agreement nothing of worth.
    You might loose your sandwich you all agreed on. But it would be defined. Even under children.

    The good thing is that nothing of value is attached to these GAmes. Even if you could agree with each other to ad a value.





    BIG JUMP TO US AND HOW WE ACT AND BEHAVE today.


    Lets take Sota and us as a Community and the Developers and go through the Points of how the basic conzept of a Game was as a Child and what we learned as Adults out of it.


    We all should be emotional professionals as we all claim to be very, very experienced Gamers with huge knowledge and countless Games we played.



    Basic Conzept of a Game - How much of SotA is a GAme?

    1. Owning a House and Decoration it? Is that a Game?
    2. Having a Party and Dancing and Chatting on Skype in the Tavern: Is that part in SotA a Game?
    3. Selling and Crafting and making a Profit
    4. Theator Performance - No that is not a Game - It is a Show

    No parameters are set when you reached the Most Money.
    No Parameters are set when the Game is over considered from a Time aspect.

    4. Player vs Player - Yes - That is a Game. One who will Win, one who will loose. If we would replace more often PvP with Game Zone - we probably would understand much more that there is no need to attach so much meaning behind it.
    "you are entering a "Game Zone". sounds much nicer but is 100% nothing else then PvP.
    With Human against Human

    5. Solo Part of the GAme - It is the closest to a Game - but you play it alone! and against a Computer.

    What happend to that aspect based on Developers and Community interest:

    It is pushed into a corner, it is made optional and majorly a small part of the World.
    There is a Warning that you are about to "Play a Game" with a other Human.

    We Adults will complain if we are not informed on time that we will play a Game with a other Human.

    So pretty interesting how we Act when we are confronted with a "Game" Part.


    I beg to ask if we can call as at SotA really "Gamers". Maybe we are here for a different Reason.
    Maybe SotA is not a Game at the End?





    Emotions of Loosing - Have we learned form our Childhood Games as Professional Adults. in SotA.

    It is interesting to see that SotA avoids creating any kind of feeling of loosing. There is basically no real loosing.

    And we wan´t this, we ask for this kind of : No Loosing experience.

    Maybe we have not learned that in a Game with Humans interacting this is required to also have a "Winner", someone who "Cheers" that the Game is over and this time he won.

    I think we are still the Childs who have to learn that loosing is part of the Game. My opinon. What do you think.


    Punishment and Setbacks

    In childhood BoradGames and other Games we learn that Setbacks are a natural aspect of a Game.
    We have to give money away on Monopoly, go to jail like mentioned. And other examples you all will remember about a GAme.


    Now what is interesting - Punishment and Setbacks are avoided like a Curse! in SotA.
    Not only in apsect of the Developement. Also the Community does not wan´t to be confronted with any kind of Setbacks.
    Getting killed form a NPC - silly small time Setback
    PvP - No Setbacks please.

    So a basic idea of what a "Game" normaly has is been a cursed avoidence.

    If you even create ingame Events - you all will find out - Rewards are the Price of Winning. But rare you will find a Setback.


    Unfortunatly you will find in Childhood GAmes Setbacks that are required to make them interesting.

    What is it that has created such Adults like we are uncap-able of accepting a basic concept of a Game we did learn as children.


    And last but very important - Sota has so much Items that have Real VAlue with Real Money we purchased - that make it impossible to not feel Setbacks if we would let them get destroyed to justify.

    Maybe Real Worth Items like you can get in a Add On Store are counterproductive to the basic idea of a Game.
    The monthly Fee we did pay never created such a problem.



    Rules of the Game - SotA

    How many Rules are in SotA we truly have to learn?

    TAke away how the UI Functinos - that is not a GAme Rule, take away all the calcultions the Software does for us in the dark behind. No need to learn.

    Take away all aspects where what you do does not impact someone else.

    What Rules are in SotA that remind you of a GAME! - Humans playing with Humans.


    I must say you will end up very, very fast with far less Rules then you can imagine you need to know.
    Almost no Rules at all you need to memorize.

    You need to memorize tons of stuff in regards to the World itself - but i hope you get my point not much about a "Game" Rule itself.



    So at the end where do i wan´t to go with this.


    I think SotA does not ask alot from you all out there in regards to "Emotional Confrontations" we would experience compared to just basic Childhood Games we played..

    Remember what lessons we learned back then about accepting both positions in a Game.


    Almost all types of Confrontations that let Players interact with each other resulting in a "Emotional" outcome of feeling something negative or a setback are totally removed and nothing you can find.


    So ask yourself all, Developers, Community, Myself.


    Am i actually truly in SotA because i wan´t to play a Game. Are you actually truly still accepting "Gaming" mentality during your creationg of SotA as Developers.

    Are my interest conflicting maybe the interest of others who still wan´t to play a Game with Wining and Loosing and all the emotions we had to deal with as childs.
    Are the Policy i create about "Interactions" in SotA supportive of the basic idea of a "Game" or not.


    And last but not least - Am my rage emotions, report emotions i have if i have a Setback, or a other Player has maybe showed he was smarter, tricked me because i did not understand the Game mechanic justified if this is truly a "Game".

    Maybe we should remember the basic first lessons our parents tried to teach us when we played the first Board Game with them.

    Maybe we should expect the SotA Player to be able to deal with a "Gaming" conflict with a other players interaction in a Grown Up way instead of the need to create a Policy and a Ban Hammer behind that one?

    Just let it be?


    Kind regards

    Myrcello
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
  2. Vallo Frostbane

    Vallo Frostbane Avatar

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    The idea has changed from overcoming great odds or challenging opponents to generate fun, to pay money to have fun in-game. At least in the corporate world. Most people playing those games nowadays aren't even true gamers anymore. More like too lazy too read a book ;)

    Old but true...

     
  3. VZ_

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    Nice post. But this game is filled with people who pour in lots and lots of real cash to basically live in a virtual world they fantasized about. Where they slay dragons, live in castles, tinker with the market with their millions and generally exist separate from the poor and unwashed masses. Albeit this is all virtual, it is a step up from imaginary.

    This is not a game for all, it is escapism.

    We look down on these souls and mock them, but it is truly thanks to them and their investments this game came about.

    Just accept that these people exist and always will, they are not interested in playing games with you, that wish to be left to their own devices.

    Just remember there are also plenty of those like you and I who will play together. I feel the majority of such people will enter the game when it is completed.
     
  4. Vyrin

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    Thoughtful post, Myrcello. I think MMO's in general really do stretch the definition of a "game".

    Can we ban the phrases "most people" and "majority of players"? All they really show is that the user's anecdotal and inconclusive evidence is being cobbled together into a truth that makes them feel better about themselves in some way.
     
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  5. nonaware

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    i agree with this but i dont like your phrasing so i wont like it.

    there is nothing wrong with escapism. we all have time we just want to relieve the stress and pressure of real life a good book a good game a long bath a cup of wine and a netflix binge. there is nothing to be looked down up.

    the fact that people were willing to help create a place where we could go craft eh uberest or +# weapons and armor then go out to slay a troll dragon a couple of skeletons and then go to a travern and share our tale with a few freinds i think is amazing.

    but back to topic.

    i dont think a good sandbox game can be confined in such a definition.

    mmos are as much a social experience as anything else. there are billions of people in the world and mmos give us a chance to interact with them in special ways.

    when i was a child my friends and i ran around the woods our houses playing. dreaming and pretending we were many things do many things. the fact that we can do this as adults with people not just from around the same bike riding distance is something to celebrate.

    sandbox games are the same as a real sandbox that used to exist in parks. there are no winning and losing other than what we allow them to be.

    there are many ways to play in sandboxes and sandbox games but we just have to be wary of the cat sh*t.

    edit: wow i really need to have coffee before i try to write more than a sentence or 2 :p
     
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  6. Drocis the Devious

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    This is a great question. Because there are some rules that unfortunately SOTA shouldn't have to teach players. Like don't exploit the game mechanics.

    I'm glad you brought up board games, Myrcello. Because board games make for a very easy concept to grasp. If it's not in the rules, then you don't get to do it. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Let's say that I took my Monopoly game to Kinko's (a printing store) and I created a thin plastic adhesive layer that could be placed over top of all the properties. This layer would have different property names on it that would essentially change the property to look and feel like something else! So Boardwalk would actually look like Baltic Avenue and Baltic Avenue would look like Board Walk. I'm so clever!

    Now whenever I play Monopoly, I can just buy and trade for all the cheap properties knowing that the true value of them has been secretly switched! Oh won't my friends think I'm a funny 'scoundrel' when they learn the truth after hours of game play when I tear off the adhesive layer to reveal that I've actually won the game that they so thought I lost.

    You see Myrcello, the rules of the game are there for everyone to have fun, not to abuse or exploit. This is why the developers created a pick pocketing mechanic, so players that wanted to play scoundrel could do so using a sanctioned and supported mechanic that had been balanced and tested by the development team and the community. It's like reading the rules to Monopoly, and then playing by the rules. That allows all players the same chance at having fun because they're playing within those rules. And just like there's nothing in the rule book that says a "dog can't play basketball" or "players can't photoshop the entire Monopoly game set to scam their friends" you just don't do it because that's not fun, and in fact when real money is involved it's actually very harmful.

    But these are lessons that a game like SOTA shouldn't have to teach people and shouldn't have to spell out specifically in the rule book. These are things that people should just understand as a basic human quality.
     
  7. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

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    :) - Your post hasn't gone un-noticed
     
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  8. Krohon

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    Well, SotA is not a generic "a" game to me either... but I fail to catch your point.
     
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  9. Myrcello

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    Curse me. Still have to learn to avoid that. I think i found and removed them now into other wording.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
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  10. Vallo Frostbane

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    I agree actually... but the project became derailed. Not by the radical full loot ffa dewdz... but by the larping whales...

    I always felt SotA could be the game to bring all players together again. Gamers, RPers etc... Thing is the project feels like a rollercoaster ride in some third world country.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
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  11. Vyrin

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    Wasn't referring to you... but I know I fall victim to it at times too.
     
  12. Enziet

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    Good post and good read. But someone has already posted the end statement. Most people will play this game to escape their own realities.
    There will be people that login to this game, and actually play it for being a video game, find out that there isn't much real game play and leave. Based on your well thought out post truly right now there is no actual game, just a digital life you can live out and b*tch that people are charging too much for items in game, or that the gold drops are too low to pay for the over priced stuff.

    As I've said before and many like me agree. We will play this game when it is launched because we are not interested in living out a fantasy digital life, but rather to play a game.
    If I want to live a fantasy digital life. I will RP and get totally into it thx much :D
     
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  13. Sarg

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    SotA isn't a board game. When we want to beat other players, we play those types of games that are designed for there to be a winner and a loser - usually multiple losers.

    Yet even in those games, you generally aren't allowed to lie and cheat except where specifically called for by the rules. Even in the "Cheating" variant of Illuminati - the most pro-cheat ruleset I am aware of, you still have to undo your cheat if the other players call you out before a full round has gone by.
     
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  14. Duke William of Serenite

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    I could not agree more. Well said Baron. What gets me the most is the new players are the ones who pay the price. You want to be the bad guy go into a PVP zone and pickpoket people. That is intended gameplay. Now taking a items and masking it as something expensive to take advantage of people that dont know any better. That is wrong in so many ways.

    And no this not a game in games you win and loose, here we just escape.
     
  15. Myrcello

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    Do you think a banning is the correct reaction to it and not overdone?

    There are so many options between it.

    - Warning
    - Penalty and removal of money
    - Vendor removal
    - 1 month only Offline mode


    My personal reaction if i would fall for the scam:

    Oh ****, you slug you got me!

    Stupid me!! Soon i will know better.

    Then i would laugh, forget about it and move on.

    I would never even think of this being a ban reason. For crise sake it is a game, or a virtual reality.

    I might private pm the Owner and have a good laugh promising him to watch out for my 10000 GOldpiece Bag of Ever Hurting Nipples


    And if i would see someone reporting it i would remember those school kids who missed out the best youth parties.

    Why: The best parties usually had us doing things our parents and the teachers would say are not ok.
    And you kept it with you and did not report it.




    And also in my childhood we would laugh if we did catch someone cheating.

    We would give him a punch or a slap. Laugh about it also. And then play on.

    Not taking it to serious. Again: It is a Game
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
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  16. Vallo Frostbane

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    Well, I guess they now strike back in form of banning people from forums ^^ But I am sure they are allowed on SotACon-Party ;)
     
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  17. PrimeRib

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    There's a famous breakdown of why people play online games known as the Bartle Test. This is somewhat dated is the sense that, lets face it, people who played computed games in the 80s tended to be nerdy males and now it could included anyone with a cell phone.

    Right now, SotA is basically a doll house. Perfect for socializer types but frustrating for achiever types, like myself, who can't really find anything like points or winning.
     
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  18. Gix

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    It's a fundamental issue that I believe plagues the industry these days; we actually have a few categories for them:
    • The walking simulator.
    • The non-game.
    They exist because the medium is trying to expand its horizons. It's become an interactive platform but a lot of people forget what the interaction was used for. I'm looking at you, No Man's Sky.

    Right now, SotA is on a threshold. It's got a lot of systems in place to make it work but there's yet to be a game to be found. It is a virtual "toy".

    There are a lot of people that want their games to be as close to reality as possible; as simulation. The thing is, I bet that playing Asteroids is more fun than actually going to the moon.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  19. DepGames

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    Perfect!!!
     
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  20. VZ_

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    That's cool man, no biggie. I agree nothing wrong with escapism, it's why we all play games with stories, read books, etc to begin with, like you said.

    But just like some people look down on couch potatoes for spending a weekend bingeing netflix, even more look down on people investing thousands over thousands of dollars to relive childhood dreams of dungeons and dragons in a virtual videogame world.

    Point is I like this game quite a bit, nothing to do with crafting weapons or building castles or pretending to sit around the hearth in a virtual tavern telling stories (lolwut) and I for one am grateful and thrilled rich people came together to build this sandbox for me to explore.

    In UO we called the types of people the OP @Myrcello is taking about "Tram Bunnies" because they just hung out in front of the bank in Trammel (no pvp of any kind was enabled) and... chatted? Showed off? Emulated a neon store sign? Whatever.
    Those people will always exist and who even cares about how others enjoy spending their time and money.

    OP don't despair, there are a ton of us still full of wonder and glee at the prospect of meeting, competing and adventuring with new people. Strangers are just friends you haven't met yet ;-)
     
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