The Truth, the whole Truth and nothing but the TRUTH (Virtue Discussion)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Glantor Edge, Sep 4, 2016.

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  1. Glantor Edge

    Glantor Edge Avatar

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    So our guild recently compared our virtues using the /stats command, realising to our horror that our TRUTH virtue appears to be our worst performing! We then embarked on a virtuous quest to uncover the hidden mechanics that goes behind calculating this particular Virtue and what led to our Disdain for this particular attribute.

    At first, we thought it was because we were caught stealing equipment from the NPC houses. After all, they were hanging in plain sight and were practically inviting us to pick them off the shelf right? However, after experimenting with opening the door, closing the door and picking up stuff inside the house, we came to the conclusion that looting zero value items from within NPC houses did not appear to affect the Truth virtue.

    Next, we embarked on another experiment to pick up loot found openly in the market in NPC towns. Of course, we were quickly told off by the wandering NPC merchants / Guards about our foolish endeavours, and our Truth attribute was swiftly deducted as a result of our grabby hands.

    We then wondered, what if we tried looting in a market that WASN'T populated with NPCs, guards and watchers? Our fearless heroine Jeon (not her full name to protect her identity and seemingly spotless reputation) then decided to pick up some lovely cheese and serving trays from the hostile adventure town of Tenebris Harbor, first ensuring that all hostile mobs and irritating watchers were mercilessly slaughtered beforehand. (interesting side note, killing Watchers, even in friendly NPC towns, does not impact any of the virtues for now). The result? THE TRUTH VIRTUE STILL TOOK A HIT!

    Still unconvinced, she once again attempted to procure said cheese by employing her hard earned Stealth skills before we looting openly. She waited till night time at the Harbour, Stealthed and picked up more stuff laid out in the open. The result? The Truth virtue still took a hit and went down!

    It was at this point in time that another guildie (fire something, forgot his full name hehe) revealed his Truth attribute. It was a shocking -297! We were stunned and asked him what did he steal? He said he had never stolen all his Avatar life, EXCEPT in the tutorial town where he looted everything like any self respecting MMORPG player would. This revelation is particularly worrying, because it seems that many players would, based on previous experience, loot openly in the tutorial area believing it is the usual practice right?

    Desperate to redeem ourselves, I began to ask around the chatrooms and searched the forums, but it appears that little has been discussed about how we could increase our declining Truth attribute. So far, the only thing that seems to increase Truth is completing quests around Soltown and answering questions as Truthfully as possible. For example, when an NPC asks your name, you reply with your actual Avatar name.

    In conclusion, we are reaching out now in hopes that more people can share tips and tricks to help improve our Truth virtue. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

    Kind regards (honestly!),
    Glantor Edge

    Note: Edited to add more details about Stealthing at night, thanks for experimenting and taking a -98 hit to your virtue jeon!
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  2. Modu

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    Well, it's arguable that the cheese was not yours to take regardless of whether somebody sees you take it or not. Admittedly, taking cheese from people who want to kill you is ok in my book.
     
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  3. fIreSpHere

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    Here's my stat as of now:
    VirtueCourage: 60
    VirtueLove: 15
    VirtueTruth: -273

    Guilty as charged for sacking the whole tutorial town. See those irresistible fruits and vege on the stand, who wouldn't take them for the journey long ahead? I logged out in tutorial town once and continue looting the whole town all over again as everything have respawned before continuing my journey. Thereafter I've been diligently farming mats in the wild and mining ores in the mine. I did pick up the pickaxes in the mines to replace all the broken pickaxes though.

    I don't need the redemption if the negative truth is something like the dark side, heck I'll even embrace it wholeheartedly. Suits my role well, a necromancer (death) dabbling in some chaos and fire magic. Plus I'm a secondary healer, what's more beautiful than sucking the life out of some living being and transfer it to your party members?

    But there's a few klepto guild members of mine are not willing to accept that they're meant to be in the dark side along with me. Hence they starting posting here seeking for redemption. *wink*
     
  4. Glantor Edge

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    Yes, the experiments were conducted in both friendly and hostile towns, so regardless of where you looted it, as long as it was looted openly, we would take a hit to our Truth virtue. I suspect the Oracle planted bugs into them cheeses . . .

    *still seeking redemption* :D
     
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  5. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

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    Interesting topic.

    Sounds like the system is currently under development. Would be nice to see some kind of "warning messages" ingame (from beginning), to help all new players to understand the mechanics in New Britannia.
     
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  6. DepGames

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    Let's just hasten the outcome of this thread.

    It's still in alpha.
    The game is not finished.
    Things are still being developed.

    Choose the excus....er, I mean mantra that's most palatable to you.

    EDIT: While I was posting, @ISVRaDa already started the chant. Never mind.
     
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  7. Glantor Edge

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    Yes, the system is under development. However, as there will be no more wipes, our Virtues are now permanent. This is the worrying part as new players with experience playing other games like Witcher 3 or Fallout 4 may be used to looting everything they see with wild abandon since there's no real penalty imposed in those games. However, with NPCs in SOTA starting to react to our Avatars according to our virtues, this has an actual impact on our gameplay and experience.

    The "warning message" suggestion is great! I hope the devs will look into this and implement a mechanic that ensures avatars realise their virtues will take a hit if they perform certain actions. I remember the Narrator laughing in the background in older Ultima games when we did something, can't remember what but that is a start so as not to break immersion? Audio hints maybe?
     
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  8. KuBaTRiZeS

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    Take in consideration that being unvirtuous doesn't necessarily mean you're on the "dark side". In my opinion:
    • If you stab somebody by the back you lack courage, but so does the soldier that deserts from a lost battle because if he dies his wife and child will have a rough time surviving.
    • If you steal and deceive others for personal gain you lack truth, but so does the butler that poison his evil master's food by not abiding to its commitment of servitude.
    • If you make your friend trip so the wild dogs chasing you eats him and you have more chances to leave unscathed you lack love, but so does the ruler that sending an army to wage war in his country borders, knowing that some of them won't come back.
    Virtues are a code that stand there for a reason; you may follow it or not. Following it doesn't make you a good person, in the same way that not following it doesn't make you bad.

    Let's avoid that outcome by talking about what could be based on what currently is instead of just complaining about what it's not ;) It's always good to argue and debate the current state of the game if it's done in a civilized orderly fashion (as it seems to be the current trend of the thread). Also good to remember all the things you said there, because that means that "what we have is not what it is" but also mean that "what we discuss may influence what it could be".

    Virtuous discussions should be Virtuous :D
     
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  9. Vyrin

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    Kuba brings up great points about how complex the virtue questions are. The starting virtue "dilemmas" with the Oracle are terrible and not indicative of the real situations in those problems. There will need to be a lot of attention given to this or it will turn into a simple game where you know the rules and try to max/min your score accordingly. Besides, people are already using alts to do whatever the heck they want.

    My point is, unless it's done well, it won't really be about any consideration of virtue.

    There are options. If they do take the time to develop it well, they could reset everyone's virtue scores and quest achievements upon release. It would be good to get news on that now though since many of us are avoiding questing due to bugs, lack of completion, and general low quality at this point.
     
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  10. Gideon Thrax

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    I've been wondering about the Virtue System and consequences in game since day 1 of persistence... at first I was against checking my stats because I didn't really want to know, but what the hell... I just checked:

    VirtueCourage: 145
    VirtueLove: 154
    VirtueTruth: 150

    Honestly, I have no idea what these numbers mean and I really don't want to speculate too much because I don't want these stats to steer how I play... That said, I'm not questing. I saved the kid, got to Soltown and handed over some notes and collected some XP and a backflip emote... and that's it. I stopped right there and it's been a while ago; I'm waiting on launch to quest the main storyline... I'll probably be a GM a dozen times over by then, but want the entire polished experience with quests... When it comes to taking things from merchants, I don't steal anything ... I made a decision early on not to partake in stealables... I've grabbed a few things just running around, sometimes even by mistake - but nothing of significance or in significant numbers.

    I have killed chickens, hogs, and cows that were all fenced in as someone's property though... and I've taken pumpkins and carrots from public gardens. I don't know if this matters, but I probably harvest/loot about 99% of the mobs and resources I encounter. Sometimes I'll kill a bunny and not skin it, or I just won't be able to loot one of the mobs that fell into the ground.

    I even PVP a little... so I have no idea how to speculate on these numbers. It'd be nice to know though if points will be reset at launch... If so, I'd probably go stock up on tomatoes and apples. :D
     
  11. DepGames

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    Well, by saying it I was hoping it would avoid the usual suspects from coming in and regurgitating the usual mantra, but I figure it will happen anyway. *fingers crossed*
     
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  12. Ronan

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    A bit more info for your "experiments":
    Created a new character, chose path of courage, helped the dying knight by bringing the healer, got the 5k exp., killed 3 elves that attacked first on the way out, took the wagon to Soltown, did not have necessary item to start love quest, introduced myself correctly to all I talked with, left Soltown, ran to Westend claimed my lot back, and then checked stats. All virtues at ZERO. Would have thought that not leaving the knight to suffer and bringing the healer to him would have boosted something.
    So next step is off to find the Oracle and see if speaking to that machine has any effect!
     
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  13. PrimeRib

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    I don't really think they're implemented:
    VirtueCourage: 0
    VirtueLove: -84
    VirtueTruth: 160

    I'm on the path of love, but I'm pretty sure I scored Truth on the initial test and it's likely nothing's really moved.
     
  14. 4EverLost

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    Maybe if you talk to some npcs and see if the ask your name? Will answering truthfully bring you up? It does seem to blue my name when I manage to type it in correctly.:rolleyes:
     
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  15. Tibs

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    I'm doing something to bring my truth virtue up, but I haven't figured out what it is. Now up to -109.
     
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  16. KuBaTRiZeS

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    VirtueCourage: 315
    VirtueLove: 1319
    VirtueTruth: 441

    No idea what i've been doing :D Just playing.

    I've followed the path of love up to being directed to the tower of the shuttered eye. Did the quests in Soltown (except giving bentley his key) and done most quests in the vale. This makes me happy because i'm doing my best to behave virtuously and not with the standard mmo mentality... so from my point of view, this mechanic seems to be in line with the "Just play" mantra :D
     
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  17. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

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    VirtueCourage: 5
    VirtueLove: 402 (I only completed 1-2 main quests...?¿)
    VirtueTruth: 142

    My current virtue stats. I was expecting something more...terrible but the game thinks I'm a good boy :rolleyes:
     
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  18. Spoon

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    Well if you go love quest, then you get the Zobart letter and find the girlfriend of the coward. At which point you chose between truth and love.
    In Soltown you have the arsonist quest where you again can elect between truth and love/vengeance.
    Etc.
    The role player in me don't want to know the effects but the min maxer in me want to check which boosts what.

    Also don't nick things from the Prisoners in The Epitaph, that is another -100 for me...
     
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  19. lollie

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    I think I took a massive hit when I looted Lord British's castle in Brittany :3

    Last count I have Truth at -5201 :cool:
     
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  20. AceBenSuited

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    I feel there should be some sort of indicator like a health bar. Creating a stats log just to see your stats feels weird. Bring back V=skills window
     
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