Dev Controlled Deeds - someone help me understand?

I wanted to create a new thread for this conversation so it doesn't get lost in the "Open Letter to Lord British" thread as I think it should be discussed as its own topic.

With so many options to control world housing why were Deeds picked and more importantly why was the concept of a random lottery chosen as the vehicle to filter in new deeds? Personally I am coming in with a biased view of being a SWG player with open worlds and free player cities where anyone with a "house deed" could place it. The difference between the player cities and the open world was a mayor in a player city had control over who could place in their city if they chose to lock it down. Granted SWG did not have player housing in NPC cities and that is one difference I see here. The limit that SWG had was you could not use more than 9 lot points with each house size using a certain point allotment from 1-9 depending on the house/building size. "Deeds" in that game were the houses - you bought them from an architect (player artisan).

Since Shroud is supposed to be a player driven economy I cannot understand why housing is not created by crafters. Perhaps that portion of the formula will be put in place in time.

I get that deeds are really items granted by the King (Our liege Lord British /bow). However, I never pictured my liege asking his citizens to enter a raffle to receive property. It disheartens me considerably that he would tax the poor to sell his land and that he would grant his land to his citizens at a pace that greatly lags behind their need to create businesses and erect shelter over their head. I think it would be beneficial if our lord would consider a few quests that our citizens could opt to accept the challenge of and potentially earn a deed through their virtuous works for him. A quest for a crafter to pursue and earn a deed. Another couple for adventurers and gatherers so that each may earn a first deed by their efforts to help our land and our kingdom.

Then the lottery for those unwilling to accept the challenge and/or trying to get more lots. With that I move into trying to understand the current model for deeds.

I can not get my head around it either. I am trying, but I cannot. How does making deeds available by a regularly opening and closing faucet help with controlling player owned housing? Yes. It limits how many lots can actually be claimed but it does it in a way that makes it extremely unfair to players.

• You can not earn your deed
• You completely rely on luck
• There will be the players that have ten+ deeds and those with none
• Deeds will turn into the currency of the land (this one actually gets me interested in this strange concept)
• Many deeds will sit in banks as players wait to give out deeds to friends or simply want to keep them "out of the game".
• It's not how hard you work, it's who you know. This is what a player should go through to get started on a crafting career?

I would really appreciate someone helping me understand why it was decided that deeds in the world should be controlled by faucet that permits them to trickle in existing under dev control instead of player control? I understand that at some point, perhaps years down the road, there will literally be more deeds than lots available - but why have that be the case?

As pointed out we already have a soft cap for lot ownership based on tax affordability. We could have a hard cap of say "7" where row lots take a point, village 2, and town lots take 3 points.... Okay, I get it a hard cap wasn't intended on the individual player but it is in place right now on entire player base! Why should that be?

Please limit discussion to pros and cons. Anyone chiming in with "because this is what the devs said it will be" is not contributing to the spirit of this thread. Nor will they be helping people who feel completely cut out of obtaining a deed any better. Personally I have a tax free deed, but I would one day like to get a deed for my alt and I don't want it to have to be me sitting and waiting for months to luck into a deed.

 

I've said something like this before, but I'd play it like Civilization.
- Two "nations" fight for control over a hex on the outer map, which is zero sum in that you can't create more land.
- Once a town is "owned" the city can grow through the actions of players, increasing the number and size of lots as well as NPCs

Portalarium's interest from a business point of view is clear. Put lots in the hands of those who will pay for them with COTOs, effectively paying a monthly fee for the game. But I still think there's a way to work the land through better game mechanics than a lottery. Because SotA just isn't designed for sandbox gold farming like EvE. Gold farmers will never care about the best gear, having houses, etc. and it won't create the kind of demand to drive the rest of the economy.

 

They should allow COTO's to buy deeds instead of cash. Keep the prices the same.

 

perhaps a lesser tax could be implemented for owning a deed, even if unplaced.

 

@MetricPig An interesting idea.

Is there no one who understands why this is being done - why it is thought to be a good system that will help the game?

I see it as treating one of the most developed and fun facets of the game as something to be lucked into.

 

At a guess? Las Vegas. People like to gamble. Will throw money at a chance. Hope spring eternal. Will get rid of IG money. Easy and less work for them, maybe?
If land is suppose to be limited, and you sell it in game for IG money at a vendor for a set amount, then the first to come will buy it all up anyway so the new comer/less invested hour-wise will have no chance at all.
At least in a gamble, you'd have a change. Probably have a better chance the longer it runs, maybe? Not too sure on that part.

 

Whatever system was chosen had to control the number of lot deeds released (there is deliberately only a finite number of these), had to soak up as much in-game gold as possible (to counter inflation) and had to give the little guy a chance. Simply selling them at vendors wouldn't work because there is not control over the number sold. Having an auction would not work because the big guilds would buy them all, leaving none for the little guy. Some form of random selection was required, and they went with the system we see. It gives everyone a chance (albeit not an equal chance - doing that would not have allowed them to soak up sufficient in-game gold).

In SotA you can have multiple accounts and share permissions, thus bypassing any such limitation.

It is currently possible to craft a reasonable number of houses, but the sale of houses through the add on store provides a significant source of income to Portalarium. It would probably be detrimental to the longevity of the game to stop that.

Awarding lot deeds for completion of quests would end any control over the number issued, and is therefore a non-starter.

 

Land is limited, true.... but deeds are not something that is truly limited. With the current system the devs could ensure only one deed for each land slot is issued, but then that actually compounds the problems I discussed in my OP.
If we put aside that deeds are limited, but rather just permission to claim a specific lot size, then a person could go to a vendor and buy up 10,000 town deeds - but how are they going to afford keeping all the taxes up if they were to place them all? The argument is that the tax system will keep people from being able to use every deed they could ever buy. If the actual concern was that one person could hold 20 lots then it makes more sense to limit the amount of lots we can place, not put deeds on a raffle.

I get that the raffle is a good gold sink - but other than that it is a terrible customer experience.

 

Other argument might be - has an add-on store that is still selling taxable deeds - the pot ones. If you can just buy the pads/pots with IG money, why would you need to buy one of those to keep funding the game. Thinks land is likely one of the best-selling times they have. Giving it all away for IG money, earns them no extra funds. If you're able to buy it with IG money, you could also just turn around and sell it too (for RL money even) - like some already do.

Kind of amazed that they're giving away like they are now even, considering it will give direct competition to their taxable lot deed customers, pot or pad alike.

 

This is all based on the idea that the deeds will limit us and not the actual land. We are never going to be able to use all the actual lots because some people will not ensure the deeds are placed into a player's hand that needs them - or they will leave the game and their houses will eventually pack up and their deeds sit forever unused. The raffle creates the myth that the little guy has a chance, but in reality the little guy could play for years without ever have a lot. I don't foresee the raffle as a good long-term sink. People will quit trying eventually and likely even leave the game when they see open lots throughout the world. I see deeds becoming the actual currency of the game if left as the gate for lot limitation.

Had this in SWG as well. If I wanted to pay for multiple accounts I got to use all the lots I wanted. There was a minuscule "maintenance" fee that was nothing like our tax so I could easily afford to be a casual player and maintain structures for two alts on the first account and two other accounts. One account was for holding the guild hall which took all 9 lots. I get that Shroud doesn't have a monthly fee and will not have shards (multiple world instances) to ensure they can provide enough lots for every player that could ever purchase a copy of the game. It makes sense to give priority to people who are willing to pay cash for a deed, but to make everyone else rely on a lottery system?

Perhaps require some COTOs to place the deed, but houses (except for a few select ones in the add-on store) should be craftable by players.

I don't agree. The quests could be turned off once all lots are claimed in the game and a queue could be formed calling on people in the order that they sign up to come work the quest when lots open up. Upon completion of the quest you can go claim a lot. Again, though if the actual land, not the deeds, was used as the limiting factor then the quests could run forever and everyone could complete the one of their choice once and at least have a row lot deed to run around in game with and eventually claim a row lot when one opened up. Reward effort not gambling.

 

Yes.
Deeds are the 'land'. Lots aren't.

 

The physically marked land (lots) do not matter? A piece of paper that we carry, store in the bank, or stick in a storage container is the 'land'? smh

It's good to know if I have a deed I will be able to find the one lot somewhere I can place on....but what about all the deeds that will go unused? How do we overcome that problem?

 

Portalarium has stated quite clearly that they never want the situation to arise where someone with a "place anywhere" deed is unable to find a non-POT lot to place it. That is why they want full control over the number of "place anywhere" deeds issued. POT deeds are an order of magnitude more difficult to manage, as the number of available lots is subject to the whim of POT owners.

If you agree with their stance on limited housing (an inevitable result of their Kickstarter campaign), then the way they are currently handling it is perfectly sensible.

 

Yes.

Unused deeds or unused lots?

 

i just bought a place anywhere lot row for ingame gold.

i could go buy right now a row pot only lot for in game gold.

i could go buy a pot only lot with store credit or cash ive made in game.

if your lazy or super casual you might not ever get a lot.

if you pay attention to forums and check out various vendors you will find one, but devs have mentioned renting so there is your answer.

every game that has non instanced housing has this issue its time to just accept that you cant just have a house and that you need to set it as a goal to own one and work towards it via the systems in place in said game.

good luck it feels good to achieve a goal i am rooting for you

 

That's just it though:
Because land is limited, there's no reason to limit deeds.
Limiting deeds just cripples people trying to place in their guild PoT - that spot isn't available for anyone else, its reserved, yet you can't buy a deed for it. Its an absurdity.

I mean whats the worst that happens by just leaving it as it was? Someone buys a town deed from an npc and has nowhere to put it?
Someone buys 50 town deeds? So what? They can't place them.
Limiting this only punishes the little guy who wants to buy a row and live in his friends' town.
A lotto system ensures nothing, player permissions do.

Remember these are taxable deeds we're talking about - placing them somewhere just to hold a spot you'll still need to pay the tax. Cant see anyone doing that on a bulk scale.

 

As the op you are falling for the missunderstanding that lot=Land. In fact at least at the moment deeds=Land.
This might change somewhere down the road.
But at the moment the Bottleneck are the deeds. And it seems to be working as intended.

 

I-ve started a similar 3d here https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/deed-ticket.59811/

our guild is completely upset due to this patch. We are not able to understand why Devs taken this decision and where the game, at this unfortunate stage, is pointing.

Here is our Guild situation after Raffle.
I was playing daily with my guildmaster, Nerone, governor of Nido dell'aquila, Pot in front of Kingsport. We were constantly trying to make some money, but our guild is small atm. Just 10 people, only 5 hard players. The days were hard but beautiful, some people mining and selling goods, some other like me doing kobolds for bows cause I am not skilled to kill harder mobs. My skills are cooking and tailoring so nothing compared to mining for doing golds, though.
I dont like to mine minerals, that's Nerone's job. We were collecting money to buy 2 village deed and one town because our Pow is a Holdfast and we can place in exterior only 40 items, too few to have a beautiful city. With 2 village deeds placed in the middle of the town we would like to arrange a great marketplace, with vendors, tents, carpets, all placed on a deed instead of the exterior Pot items limit.

Then came the RAFFLE. We realized that with a lottery we cannot buy the deeds we need to improve our small town. Kobolds now don't drop bows no more. Nerone is still mining and selling minerals as this part of the game has not been nerfed.
Atm 6 players on my guild stop playing since there is no goal in deeds with the raffle system. I'm not able atm the moment to play 2 hours on mobs to collect 400g....not funny.
Cotton and leather have small price. So no gold from this.
No point on playing to build our town, that is condamned to be empty and ugly, with only 40 item to place. Talking to my guild mates none of them, with this raffle system (that I'm completely hating), have the intention to put his lot in a Pow. First they will place it on a npc town. So our guild will not grow, people that make a project to improve visually a game like sota now has no point on that. No point on playing together, no point nor fun.

Sota is a game that based his fan base on housing. As all people that kickstarte knows. Dev decides to introduce a Raffle on the most delicate aspect of the game. The bones of the game: housing.
Before confirming a change like this It should be discussed to avoid problems and damage on gameplay. When pledged this game (and Ive never spent so much rl money on a game) I'd never imagine that Devs could take this decision so easily. Im totally disapponted. As all my guild. Please If my opinion is too bad I would be happy to be refuted, since I loved this game.

 

Forcing people to do like I did and use $ to buy a deed while there are actual lots open in the game POT and NPC is creating more discontent than selling a deed that a person might not be able to place immediately if all NPC lots where full and no POT owner will allow the player to place. With POT in the picture a person doesn't have to buy a deed just hoping for a lot - they can get with the POT owner, secure a lot and go buy a deed...come back and place the deed.

Perhaps the answer for POTs is to give the owner a deed when they mark the land in their town as a lot that they can then sell/give to a new citizen.

One day NPC cities may fill to max, but if they are going to leave deeds 1:1 for the actual land out there there will always be openings leaving people who cannot obtain a deed unhappy.

@Earl Atogrim von Draken I am not failing to understand anything regarding deeds=land while lots!=land per the current design.

What I am failing to understand is how creating an artificial land shortage will benefit the game and its players over the long run. Let's say that currently there are 100,000 NPC lots out there. That's 100,000 places people could use a deed (with size restrictions). But (again let's say) there are currently only 50,000 deeds in the game. The deeds will trickle in with each raffle and eventually grow to 100,000 deeds, right? Several of the awardees will use or give their deeds to other players and they will actually be used in an NPC town. Other awardees will stash the deeds for eventual disbursement to future players. Some awardess will eventually leave the game and their deed will pack up and not be used. Many of the players with deeds will go to POTs and use their deed there. That leaves us with hundreds to possibly thousands of NPC lots in game that will never be able to be used = artificial land shortage. Why make it worse than it should be? Sure the devs could run reports and try to compensate for all this but per their current stance they shouldn't because a POT placed deed owner might decide to move to an NPC town or a player that left for a long time might possibly come back and play again so their deeds better be able to be placed?

This means the only reason for taxes (other than gold sink) is to remove people from popular locations so that deed owners can move into the more popular location but it provides no avenue for the active player to be able to get a deed and place in an empty lot. If this is not revisited then years down the road we could have a game that is potentially 50% or less populated because 50% of the deed owners no longer play.

How is that a simple or fair system?

I would rather see active players rushing to claim a lot that just opened rather than never being able to get a deed.

 

I personally think the Raffle was a great idea. Not everyone wants to spend money to buy a pledge or take time actually playing the game to own a lot.

There should be other avenues of obtaining a deed rather than being forced to contribute to the game in some form.


Limiting the amount of deeds to available housing space was another excellent idea.

This ensures a vast amount of land will be permanently unavailable due to the thousands of deeds sitting on inactive accounts / players holding them for resale / etc.

This great swath of unsettled land will provide a healthy atmosphere for the denizens of Novia without having to invest time or resources into conservation efforts.


Releasing only 40 deeds per month. We have already seen 5 or so of the 100+ cities filled to capacity.

Easily acquiring deeds through a vendor or quest would quickly see the cloned perfection of the remaining backwater cesspools tarnished by players wanting to set up houses/shops/etc.

No longer would you be able to walk through city after deserted city and marvel.


No choice of deed size. Without the raffle, players would be able to purchase a particular deed size based on what they can afford.

How are the Baron's supposed to get their cotton when players are only putting in an hour or two a week?

We needed something that would stimulate the economy and giving a taxable City lot to a casual player will ensure their priorities are in order.