Some of my perceptions at present

Well I am unhappy with the game if you have not noticed. So I am going to complain a bit more in hopes that it makes an impact but in any case I'm hoping to sell my account soon and get the Unity Assets. I hope they are worth the roughly 180 USD I have put into this game. I don't expect I'll have anything more to say once I have the Assets. If I can't get the assets I'll just give my account away.

 

Small correction. I may have more to say if I do something useful (unlikely) with the Unity assets I will post the results in the forums.

 

Are not the assets free? I downloaded them already... but didn't use them yet.

 

You have to have an account that has them Developer and above before Developer was closed. I do not have that. It is possible for someone to gift them to me. But only one person offered to do that and that has not happened yet. In any case by getting an account with them I also get all future Unity assets as well so that's a bit better than gifting.

 

Did someone say cult ?'...

~"Stop That, Stop That, it's Silly!"~

Stick around with us @Raxhelm !
~Time Lord~

 

I hope you stay, Raxhelm, I've only read your posts over the past few days but you seem like a balanced and reasonable voice to me.

 

That's the thing with that thread.. it being closed was not necessarily a bad thing, because it was indeed derailing and that train was heading through the woods. My posts there are partly to blame as well, sadly. (BTW I'm not some next level troll because my avatar picture IS a train heading through the woods, gotta celebrate coincidence when it hits though!)

But I was so compelled to post in that way because there was sincere injustice taking place. The OP addressed a problem with the direction of the game, and by the very third post it was not but a personal problem with the original poster! No content at all, just basically saying "you're the worst person on this forum I've ever met because you're the only person I've ever had to block."

Why was this post not moderated? Obviously, similar such posts must have occurred because they were removed.

Why some of us are salty now, is because at the same time that the issue could have been replied to by the team, at the same time that people are really asking to be open about this stage of development (as Richard Garriott promised they would be in his post in a similar thread from years ago), at this same time, there was no response. The response was a closed thread. At this same time it was obvious that the team had read all this, that they were active on the forums, and simply liked every post on a "love the game" thread.

Can you see how this looks bad. Hell, we love the game too, but we don't love the reaction that occurs when someone wants to talk about what might be a glaring issue. We don't like the inaction of the team when some questions could have been answered.

I guess I could be wrong and it isn't an issue at all, which is why it's ignored in the first place. If so, carry on, nothing to see here.

 

It is a bit overboard. People read too much into it. We didn't lock those threads because their was criticism. We locked them because their was constant infighting, flamebaiting, and attacking of the devs or other players. It's how you say it, not necessary what you say. Many of those posts were removed before we locked it.

We're quite open about accepting criticism in the forums, or I'm sure many many more posts would be locked.

We will protect the community, and its criticisms, from these problems. That meant a couple of locked threads this weekend, even though there were unfortunately some very good critical comments in there as well. Keep in mind that we didn't delete them either, we just locked them.

 

I was the person that blocked him. I didn't state that he was the worst person on this forum...He doesn't even come in the top 50 of 'bad' posters in the last 3 years. I ignored him for his constant daily posts of negativity. I do actually agree with him on a number of issues, but constantly opening threads what seems every day or more even, on the same issues without devs being given time to rectify is too much. He has had personal forum reply's from dev's including LB, stating what their intentions are but still continues in the same vein.

I haven't seen any post by himself stating anything he does actually like, never any encouragement, just doom and gloom. I am quite sure he will never be happy here, there will always be something he doesn't like and these post will continue on & on.

Everyone has a right here to state their opinions. everyone's opinions are valid and should be heard, i stated i have never ignored anyone, even though i have been very tempted in the past, for these reasons, but at the end of the day, when someone posts constantly on the same issues and offers no encouragement, I'm not wasting my time reading and responding, again and again. I actually used to think he made some excellent points a few years back and praised him for his vision, it just never ends though. My response to him was not a personal attack, it was meant to inform in a concise way that for me his negativity was wasted. I will unignore in a few months and see if i feel hes worth listening to again, as everyone should have a voice here but not so much of a big voice that it drowns out all others.

 

Fair enough. There's two sides to every story. A bit of empathy and we can see through the cracks in the dividing wall to better understand each side.

 

Yes, but don't let him abuse of everyone rights.

When someone do a lot of criticism but never suggest a possible fix, or take action (like leaving the game next day), then he is abusing of his rights, placing an undue burden on the community.

It's, in my opinion, a trollish behavior and should be handle accordingly; ignoring or blocking the user is a great way to go.

I once was on a beta and didn't like the game anymore. Did I do several posts about how bad it was? Nay, just left them alone and hoped for the best. It finally get released, I must go there someday and check my account. Glad they did it! While I not suggest that everyone do as I do, I feel free to ignore people that behave so differently as I would.

 

This is whats wrong with most people in the community is they think that we, the consumer, should provide a fix. I am not being paid to fix the game. If I point out issues with the game I should not have to say how to fix the issues. If I see a balance issue I will say the balance issue and point it out. The do not give us the numbers or the systems they use to calc damage or what a skill should be doing or how much one armor type is protecting against another. This is the data I would need if you want me to fix things. We should be pointing out the issues so they can fix them not us offer up free ideas for them to use. If you want my ideas on fixing things then you pay me but I will speak up if I see issues.

 

Are you paid for doing negative posts? You seems to imply that. Anyway, please don't bother of endlessly complaining at things that no one can fix, it just add negative feelings to the forums, while not helping to improve anything.

You have the right to post whatever you want; I have the right to like or dislike it, and to post about it. But just imagine if somebody start complaining about you in the forums. It won't be nice of him, and perhaps you don't like that. The mods will do their job if their lock the thread and ban the offender for a while. It would be a better way to share your thoughts in a way that don't hurt people feelings, even if you aren't paid for that!

 

noone is actually expecting a FIX from anyone other than the devs... the problem is most of what happens is just criticism as in allegation or whining rather than critical input.

what really pisses me off is that the crowdfunding and open development model gets run into the ground by this behaviour.

give them a finger and theyll try to rip of your arm... and if succeeding complain about you not using both hands.

 

I think the point is that we not so much fix the issues for them but offer constructive criticism rather than just criticism about a given issue. I can say, "I really hate the way feature X does this." and most people will probably pass right by it, even if some agree with me. But, haven't you ever thought to yourself when playing any game, "Man, why didn't they just make feature X do this? This way is so boring and tedious. My way would work around that." Personally, I have but then again, most games are done and might be patched but the core system isn't going to change so I just have to deal with it (I'm looking at you planet scanning in ME2, ugh.).

There's parts of the game, although unfinished, that I'm not particularly crazy about but I can't really think what to do about it until I see how they start to change it. I normally wouldn't post about those things all the time though unless I'm bug reporting it. However, with it being open development and early access, I have the rare opportunity to throw out some of my ideas concerning things I don't care for. I don't consider it 'work' because honestly, I'm already starting to think it while I'm playing. I can understand if you feel that your ideas are worth being paid for and not just given away but man, I think it'd be pretty cool to see an idea I forwarded actually show up in the game. Even if it's not identical, you'd be able to see your thought process in there. I don't know, that's kind of reward enough for me.

Long story short (too late), at least make a criticism of a perceived issue constructive rather than pointing at it and saying, "That's broke guys, fix it." Just my opinion, though.

 

I see you're new to the very concept of crowdsourcing.

This is a crowdfunded and crowdsourced game.

 

I paid to back this games development. I paid them money to be able to post. You imply that I'm paid to post negatives about the game is wrong. I was commenting on me offering fixes and how to fix it. If you want me to do deep dives into code bases and game balance issues that is not something you can do in 1 weekend without knowing all the game systems and if they do post that information people will go say get skill Y to xx level and Z to this level which ruins the gameplay.

You can't give critical input when half the systems are in flux. When they change things like loot drops and NPC buy back values how are we to give input other then saying its stupid and change it back? The Lot Tax rate is another example of how do we give input other then its broken when less then 9000 people were making more then 1k per hour? Yes this got changed but sometimes you can't give any more input then its broken and got WTF devs?

 

people complained and it got adapted (within reason)... perfect example of good practice by the devs imo.

[edit] even if they dont change something people whine about, doesnt mean they dont care... they just might know better what is good for their project rather than the billions of football trainers once the worldcup starts.[/edit]

 

~Time's Takes~...

Indeed, the time to comment is "always in the now", because hindsight very often doesn't change things...

Noble! As above, so this goes...

Passionate! When any leader looks across the battlefield, it's that time for serious passionate comment, but I would say that personal passion, just as it was with the rest of the Gargoyles principles, Passion can be sometimes misunderstood.
http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Gargish_Virtues I get a little Gargish in me sometimes

Indeed! Time heals all wounds... (*unless you piss me off* ) But with this issue, there's no doubt that this SOTA of ours is a work in progress and is often times judged as a finished product

That's a tough one I've felt allot of... "I don't like learning things twice" and can get seriously stuck in my ways! (old age or mental problems... I've never been able to tell which I sometimes have )

Good Sausage takes Grinding Indeed !'


"and what does green slime have to do with making good McDonalds hamburgers" ?'
~Time Lord~

 

@Time Lord
Here is a RG interview for your collection. In it he talks a bit about when he first started to get and read fan mail and that the vast majority of them telling him what a terrible game he had made.