Suggestion for PvP Lots/Outlaw Lots

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Myrcello, Sep 7, 2016.

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  1. Myrcello

    Myrcello Avatar

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    Not sure what you are talking about. But not about my suggestion
     
  2. kaeshiva

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    There are a lot of frustrations at the moment re: lack of lot availability in-game except via a random lotto system, when housing is such an integral part of the game.
    Presenting a solution that requires full loot PvP to be activated doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the game, to me. I don't think its fair to make players do the PvP thing just because there's no other way to get a house.

    That being said, I do find the idea of an outlaw town intriguing, I just don't think it should circumvent the current system.
    The idea of not paying tax while in pvp mode is an interesting one, but because you can play in instances/friendsmode nearly everywhere it seems to me a lot of risk is avoided for a pretty substantial reward.
     
  3. Myrcello

    Myrcello Avatar

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    Of course. Maybe less Tax instead. Would still be Risk/Reward. But little harder.

    Why not.

    Buccanners Den is something my suggestion does not exclude.
     
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  4. sdbaynham

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    "This game has more PVP risk than any game to be released in ages and nobody's interested in PVP. But there's a horde of PVPers waiting just outside the game's walls for the chance to risk slightly more in PVP, they exist, I swear!"
     
  5. Nadomir

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    Hmm... I have to confess, I'm not a big fan of PvP and roleplying bandits and the like, so encouraging that kind of playstyle is somehow against my nature. Setting that aside for a moment, I still don't see any reason for this
     
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  6. shathiell

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    Interesting idea, however I don't know how this will go down with the players who invested real world money to ensure they have a tax-free lot. It could potentially devalue this investment they have in the game.

    Also, how would you handle lots of different sizes? Right now, they are taxed higher amounts for larger lot sizes, so you would need some sort of system in play to ensure this risk/reward approach, or else everyone will just go with the largest deeds they can afford.

    Lastly, what is stopping players buying up all the lots and staying permanently flagged? Unsure if this has been addressed, but I don't believe so.
     
  7. amarious

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    I really enjoy this idea. Right line of thinking I might say.
     
  8. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    This could mean someone can place a lot, place castle walls around it, set the lot to full pvp, enjoy a tax free safe space. Put a vendor in front of the lot, so people wouldn't have to step on the lot and engage in PvP.

    In POT environment, the lots can be placed right next to one another. So there could be a large cluster of lots where the outer lots contain walls to prevent invaders. If this isn't a PVP POT, the owner can also ban a player who deem to be hostile enemies.

    The current way this idea is proposed will just be used as a loop hole for eliminating taxes without really risking anything.
     
  9. DancingShade

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    Yep. I'm pretty certain that was the intention too. Just dressed up a bit to obfuscate it.
     
  10. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    The title of this thread is inaccurate. You're announcing a proposal, not something that is to be. The way the title is phrased will lead people to believe that this is something that is to be rather than something the author would like to see.
     
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  11. Myrcello

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    Serious?

    That is your contribution to the thread.

    Nitpicking on my title?
     
  12. DancingShade

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    He's not wrong. No need to be defensive about it.
     
  13. Forseti

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    Okay, this game and forum is actually a beautifully displayed microcosm of modern civilization. Someone could probably write their doctorate dissertation on socioeconomics and government with this study.

    Follow me here... imagine as avatars, we're all immigrants, trying to escape a boring life or seek adventure. You start looking around at different countries for a place to go, easily passing up countries that are communist, or dictator led, or some place where there's no clear path to try to get ahead and life, obtain some land and a piece of the pie.

    This was the early appeal of the US. So we choose the US to immigrate to. With time, the money in the economy always pools to the top. The wealthiest of the population see their taxes and businesses directly building the country, and increasingly take control of what they see as theirs. More of their money flows through the government and influences all laws, and the little man has less and less of a say, even though he thinks he is voting on issues in a democracy.

    With a growing unrest in a growing lower class, the government must find ways of appeasement and sustainably. This has been the balancing act of kings and rulers since the beginning of the agricultural revolution. What kind of welfare will keep them afloat? In sota, "here, have a free lottery ticket"... will a % of ticket sales at least go to funding our public school system? ;)

    So the mob becomes unruly and the government tries to squash all loud dissenters like a bug. The loudest of which must be more closely watched and silenced. Meanwhile propaganda and peachy news is published, everything is great here folks, keep spending your money. And don't worry, we've got your back big money, I mean you are paying us to protect your interests, afterall. If government could, it would gladly control every single piece of media that could ever even mention said government. See north korea.

    After a few undercover operations by the CIA the freeist thinkers can be removed from the equation. Here in sota you might get doxxed and have your personal information displayed to you as some sort of passive aggressive threat. The government secret agencies can get fairly out of hand when left unmonitored you may well know.

    Okay I hope you can see the parallels I'm drawing with our microcosm and I've explained my stance more specifically. For a new player, excited about earning a house, they try to start reading up how it can be done. First of all, it is ridiculously confusing, and when you finally do start to figure it out, it becomes clear that it is pretty much impossible. And honestly, the lottery just adds insult to injury. All a lottery ever is is entrapment of the poor. I'm not some lost soul wasting my money on booze and lottery tickets trying to hit it big, I want to work to earn my lot.

    Addressing the hype that once was but is here no more, look at RG's first announcement of Sota on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1aztsm/i_am_richard_lord_british_garriott_creator_of_the/

    The top comment is about the most famous PK in gaming history. The second highest is about the idea that UO was the most unique and thrilling gaming experience most people have ever had. And it was all because the risk presented by pvp and full loot. The majority in that thread echoed that belief, as proven by the simple upvote system. Therein you can even find RG stating that they will bring this experience to Sota.

    Aside from trying to prove that the OP's idea is actually needed, the problems people have with it so far don't make sense to me. Make the pvp lots tagged as non tradable, or one max per account. Available in full multi online only. I don't see people achieving a lot then locking themselves in and saying, "AHA, you can't get me in here I've won the game!" And then what they try to make money behind their walls?..not seeing the exploit here.

    So maybe offer taxed pvp lot deeds only, maybe only offer the smaller house deeds with it. Here's a big one, I know we're "persistant", but let Portalaruim try it. If it doesn't work out, all pvp players who participated agree to have their lots and homes wiped, and refund any add on store purchases in said lot/home. If they try it and it doesn't work, no harm no foul.

    But if it works, think of the possibilities. I bet people would pay Portalaruim good money as an entry fee to regularly held pvp tournaments or something that could have a nice deed as the ultimate prize.

    Bring back the risk/reward. Make pvp great again :)
     
  14. Thwip

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    Hey I like this idea at its core, an incentive/reward for being in PVP..! :p
    I like the idea of REDUCED taxes, some percentage that doesn't have to be huge, just enough to create a good risk/reward.;)
    Or perhaps a small percent boost to Exp gain when in PVP and multi-player... :D

    I think it would be fun, I never play PVP, but something like this would be a rush...
     
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  15. Gregoire Visaard

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    Would like to see the body part that is looted actually come off the person looted! See which is more important that bad ass weapon, expensive piece of pixel crack, or your right leg. Maybe after a week or two allow the looted party to grow a new body part. Also would be a good way to introduce a new level of healing into the game and professions. Think Doctor or Nurse as a skill to learn and a title to have above your name. Could be a lucrative business and add some realism to a world wear everyone is armed and dangerous! Besides us adults could also play bad doctor good nurse after a night of drinking and ....
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2016
  16. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    If there is a way to break into the wall/gate, whether by ramming the gate, use siege engine to break the wall, or simply climb up or dig under. This could be something we could consider :)

    Keep in mind that it was the open loot full PVP in UO that causes it initial downfall. While there were people who enjoyed the risks and rewards, there were many more people who didn't find it fun and left the game. The folks who came later didn't stay for long either because they had no patience for rez kill and found the rewards not worth the risks. That was the reason why they introduced multi-facet Trammel/Felucca concept. While it took away the original design of the game and also caused significant amount of nerd rage from those who enjoyed the game the way it was, it did brought the game back to live for further development and milking subscriptions for EA. For every player that quit the game because of Trammel, there were many more new people who came into the game and played. The peak of the subscribers in UO actually occurred after Trammel was introduced (twice the size of the subscribers before Trammel).

    There was one article or a post on some forum (I believe Katrina Beker shared the link a few months back), which had the guy who was in charged of UO (keep in mind and Richard and Starr left the project by then) at the time felt that if he could do it over again, he would not have Trammel/Felluca facets, but instead spin up new shards with Trammel ruleset while the older shards stay the same as if they would be like Siege Perilous.

    While open world PVP with full loot sounds all gung ho and fun for many to flex their nerd twitch muscles, it is very unlikely that the game play will sustain any player base for a long period of time. Once there are small number of big guilds dominated any of these games, it will start become stagnant. If the smaller groups have no shot to compete in the realm, eventually they will just leave the game and move on to something else. Look at Shadowbane, it's a great a game with many cool open world pvp features, but people did not have time to rebuild stuff over and over just to be destroyed by those who had more play time than them. Mortal Online also tried to go full scale PVP, but ended up plague with hacks and toxic people.
     
  17. Myrcello

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    @Berek can you change the Title of this thread to: Suggestion
     
  18. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    On top of the first post of the thread, there should be a drop down called "Thread Tools" right next to "Watch Thread" or "Unwatch thread" link. Inside the drop down, there will be an option to edit the title.
     
  19. Forseti

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    "Flex their nerd twitch muscles"

    Ah yes. That must be what we really want here.

    Keep in mind people could choose to play the game this way, not be forced.

    Look, there's no direct correlation with UO's peak player base and it's version of pvp. The path of the game's growth and death are undoubtedly more complicated than that. I don't know how you can explain away that the thrill of that system is the most mentioned thing when people talk about the game, or why it was the greatest game they ever played.

    You're speculating that the system might not sustain itself as time goes on, but buddy let me tell you something, this current system IS NOT sustaining itself right now.

    What is everyone's comment on portalarium taking this idea for a test run? We are still in a test run phase, no? What would be the drawbacks to trying it, and removing it if need be?
     
  20. Stryker Sparhawk

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    Perhaps there could be alternate ways of having your lot taxes free or reduced, through alternate currencies obtained in PVP, like trophies from killed opponents (also could be highly abused) or by exchanging your tax by entering into a permadeath state in exchange for your rent.
     
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