Suspension of disbelieve in game world and story

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lord_Darkmoon, Sep 8, 2016.

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  1. Lord_Darkmoon

    Lord_Darkmoon Avatar

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    Darkstarr just wrote that the devs strive to keep "the suspension of disbelief we all work very hard to maintain around the game world we have built together" which can be threatened by talking in the game about selling pledges etc.

    So "suspension of disbelieve" is important for the game to support the atmosphere and the (dreaded word) immersion. But how does this fit with the choices and consequences and the quests? If the arsonist in Soltown is never punished for his crimes, if NPCs cannot die or if other real changes cannot happen to the world and its inhabitants how can the suspension of disbelieve be kept? Or does this not apply to the story and quests?
     
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  2. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Thank you for creating yet another thread on this. I hope you get an official answer, because you don't seem to want to listen to anyone else on the forum.
     
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  3. Lord_Darkmoon

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    An official answer to this would be needed.
    As for the reaction of others: How can they know the official plans?

    I know that I have become some kind of "enemy" for many community members for wanting the game that was originally announced and for not accepting that SotA has changed to a MMORPG. I may be pestering as much as the Open PvP crowd did/does but I don't do this to hurt the game. In fact I think that those here wanting to steer the game away from the original, very innovative, new, bold and interesting design and vision may be hurting the game and pushing it into a niche where it won't be successful - just my opinion which may again make me the "enemy".
     
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  4. Evilgamer

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    Pretty much, my thought clicking on this was "if this is about NPCs dieing and towns getting burned to the ground..."
     
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  5. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    I'm not saying you are the enemy. I think you have a point, but as many have said, there are ways to do this without instancing.

    I'm just pointing out that this is another thread in the same vein, which is against forum policy. Take it back to your original thread.
     
  6. PrimeRib

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    The game would be so much more immersive if perma-death were inflicted on anyone how killed an important NPC.
     
  7. Magnus Zarwaddim

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    This Developer thread "Standup Corner" gives an overview of what the team is working on. If you spend ANY time looking through that, you will see information about quests and such. They are, therefore, working on it. I think continually mentioning the Soltown quest is only going to deter someone from answering you. If you think they do not know about it, then that's just you.

    Please stop trying to tie EVERYTHING into the Soltown quest. :)
     
  8. Lord_Darkmoon

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    Then let us hear the official plans for that.
     
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  9. LoneStranger

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    One conspiracy to rule them all...
     
  10. Lord_Darkmoon

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    Want to know how I feel? Like a child. Mother says that we go to eat burgers in the evening. She says that I can have a cheeseburger, nuggets, fries and a cola. But I have to give her some of my money up front for this which I do. At the restaurant someone at a table says that a salad would be better. But I want what was promised and what I paid for. Then mother orders the food and she orders a salad. I am asking when I will get my burger - no answer. I ask again - no answer. Finally she says that I have to be patient. So I wait and wait while trying to eat the salad. At least there are chicken stripes in it. But someone on the table suggests to remove those and mother does. Then she orders again but instead of cola she orders mineral water. All the while I ask why? But the only reactions I get are from persons sitting around me saying that I am a spoiled child because I keep asking for my food. And they get angry at me because I want what was promised to me and what I paid for and for not liking the salad and mineral water while I still wait for mother to answer my question...
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2016
  11. docdoom77

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    I kind of love this simile.

    Carry on my friend.
     
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  12. VZ_

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    I don't think anyone cares enough about you or the opposite of your opinion to hate you or label you an enemy. And I mean that in a good way.

    It's clear the game had taken a different direction.

    It's just getting tiring of seeing the same exact topic brought up by the same exact person every week or so.

    If you want the devs to give a word on it, address them directly, today's discussion on YouTube and discord is the perfect opportunity. Email them daily, harass them instead of the community.

    I don't see the point of creating yet another thread. There's nothing new to be said
     
  13. VZ_

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    Yes... Yes we know how you feel. Over and over and over.

    To jab your analogy, mother knows best and you are better off with the salad. When you grow up and aren't obese and have good eating habits you realize this when you see everyone else around you and there's an obesity epidemic.

    The devs changed the game direction to what they feel is best.
     
  14. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    This is what you heard. Mother actually said "Lets go out to eat this evening. We can do to that nice diner down the block, they have things like cheeseburgers, nuggets, french fries and colas there. If you want to join us, you need to contribute some of your money up front."

    The developers laid out what came before, and tried to form their vision of what that might become. However, its a moving target. You are not buying a finished product, that's the entire point of crowd funding a project like this. If you see what you like, and trust the developers to do what they think is best, you can contribute. That might mean you get a "salad" down the road, that is their call. If you don't like the results, you are free to sell your account and move on.

    It seems that you would be much happier if you had waited, so you were not disappointed by the reality of development. Things change; that's the only constant in game design. Pre-release games are not like retail games; you don't come into a product in the state its going to be released in. Usually, its just a rough outline. Compared to what I've seen, Portalarium has been incredibly tight with their design outlines, but even comparing those to what you can see in the concept art gallery will show a WIDE gulf of change. Welcome to the development meat grinder; watch your step, its messy.

    This thing your dwelling on is a very small part of the game. A part that hasn't even been touched on for development yet, since the systems have to come first before they can build the story that uses them. So to say your concern is premature is an understatement.
     
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  15. Lord_Darkmoon

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    If it has changed then the devs should just officially say so. This would be fair to those who backed because of the original annoucement and the focus on single player which could easily be read into the annoucement.
    Also telling that the design has changed might help the game in the long run.
    Just look at what happened to No Man's Sky. The game that was released is very different from the game that was announced. And now the game is critized to no end. It has literally been destroyed because the devs didn't tell that the design of the game has changed. The reputation of the devs is now damaged, too. Many gamers won't trust them anymore.
    If a game design changes then the devs should honestly tell so - if the players find out after release then it might get as ugly as it got with No Man's Sky.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
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  16. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    You keep saying this. If WHAT has changed? Specifically. Because everything that is on the Kickstarter list of features is happening. Yes, it doesn't look like it did in the video, but that was also noted as being a very early prototype using placeholder assets.

    You said it has changed to a MMORPG, but it has not; it is still the selectively multiplayer game they wanted, with limited number of "massively multiplayer" in the sandbox, and the ability to play offline. Does it play like a single-player game in offline mode; no, not yet, since that is not feature-complete. I have faith that it will, eventually.

    The only other thing I've seen you beleaguering is that towns containing player housing will not be instanced with different content for different players. This can be done without instancing, and while they have not addressed how they plan to deal with long-term consequences in those areas, it doesn't "change" any of their plans.
     
  17. PrimeRib

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    I think the problem is that they were very vague with the game. Then they promised everything and painted themselves in a corner.

    I don't care if the details change every day. But there has never been an overarching philosophy at all. PvP had been such a gigantic mess because the initial stretch goals seemed guild based, then we have party based and FFA, there's still no real answer on factions. If you go through the skill advancement system, or the economy, or anything else it seems to be the same thing.

    To be successful, the game will need to take some stands and break some "promises." Right now it feels like a big pile of toppings but hasn't decided whether it's about burgers, pizza, or ice cream. Maybe bacon goes well with everything, but not much else does.

    I'm perfectly fine with splitting the lines between sandbox and themepark. These inconsistencies don't bother me much. But the overall lack of goals/mechanics is a problem. There;s just sort of a lot of stuff, and while powergamers have succeeded in min/maxing, endless grinding doesn't make a very interesting game.
     
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  18. redfish

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    I have to admit, I was a little curious about the rationale being suspension of disbelief when there are many other things were put in the game that go directly against suspension of disbelief. Especially when we're talking about add-on items.

    But I hope they stick to this.

    Certain things are just more difficult for the devs to deal with than others, @Lord_Darkmoon, so you have to cut them some slack. Part of the reason they adopted the selective multiplayer model is so they could have some scenes that are different for different players. But that's only really easy when its a solo scene, not when its a multiplayer scene.

    Still, I hope thinking of ways they can deal with these scenarios are in the back of their minds, and I hope they stick to the philosophy that they want the game world to be an actual world, where our belief of its reality is suspended, and not just a dressed up chat room.
     
  19. majoria70

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    I don't have an irritation about Lord Darkmoon's posts. I do love so many of the ideas he has. I also love that he wants details to not be missed. We are all on the same page on we want a great game, single player and multiplayer, and all modes. One thing that does bother me is the focus on what was said by the team verses what is actually happening. IMO that is not an issue we need to continue to bring up. No one, not even the Devs can foresee what will totally happen with this game before they do it. This game is a 'do it and then we see how it works' type of game. Making a game with the players is so not a rational thing to do, but omg it is going to be something unlike others. The Devs are pulled in a zillion different directions, Where's the understanding and empathy? So many fits are being thrown about so much, which could be like throwing a spoke in the wheels of development, tying their hands in fear of offending their backers. IMO this should stop. Sometimes I wish they would just tell us to step back and just work instead of dealing with our fits.

    We may not always know the why, and many times I'm sure they do not know what will be to even tell us. There is so much I know the Devs hear and read that we end up seeing in game. Over and over this happens and is really a great surprise to discover these. Great ideas are added to the jira list which is a 'to do' list if you don't know what that is. If you give just cause for your ideas with great ideas and examples and remind them, you could end up on the jira (to do list), but if you didn't end up on the jira list, keep trying, bring it up again with more examples and more feedback. Perhaps more ideas on how it will work and why it will work.

    That's why I don't get too upset about the continuous posts by Lord Darkmoon, only a bit about some things. I know there are ideas that are so important to him. I would like to suggest though @darkmoon, to stop harping on game changes since kickstarter. That part is old and is not changing. Just get over it so we can move on. Don't expect the team to always get back to you, sometimes they will and sometimes they won't . I say just keep up the great ideas without the harping on kickstarter. It invalidates you, and also makes others not want to listen to you. This is a shame because you do have some wonderful ideas and contributions to make. Like I will continue to harp on in game bulletin boards because I truly see them as an interesting and necessary way to connect a divided world in multiplayer, and a great visual in single player offline.

    So I do understand your passion except your passion to harp on the past, and about requiring dev answers. I'm sure they don't have the all the answers, nor should they given the development style of this game. Cut them some slack and get back to sharing your visions and ideas. That is why we are here, to do our best to help and sometimes we are not helping. Ideas help them. They can just grab them at the appropriate time of implementing something. Like hmmm haunted house and halloween ideas for example. Perhaps they were saying to themselves 'we are adding Halloween stuff now, let's see what ideas the players have'. So Wala you may see your ideas in game. Don't give up after not hearing and get stuck in the past, just continue to rally for what's important.

    So just some thoughts on what I've read in this post and perhaps a bit lectury type of post too ;) *Cheers*
     
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