Discussion regarding the new economy balancing

Being somewhat the same way I have to remind myself.. there is always more.

 

I think it's a bit simpler than that for the most part. While playstyles that require "fuel" vs those that don't are a factor.. I would break it down more along the lines of gatherer, RPer, PvP/PvE, hours per day/week, crafter, (gold) farmer.. in terms of economy.. how much does each type of player introduce into the economy vs moving resources already into the economy.. and who uses the up the most of which resources.

 

What I would like to see is a "Play Time vs Gold Stash" Metric. So the top 10% hold 90% of the wealth, what is the average logged time for these accounts? I only get about 4-6 hours of play time a week but every time I log on at different hours of the day or night some of the same players on my friends/Guild list are playing. These guys have serious hours logged so it would stand to reason they would have serious "Bank" to show for it.

I agree with some other posters in this thread that the problem is not the rich vs the poor, it's game content. Things should work themselves out as the game gains more content. There is no reason for some sort of "Sota Stimulus Package".

 

If the 10% are players that only play 10ish hours a week, then I would understand the problem. I can only get a good 10 hours in during the week and I feel I have some decent cash (22k not including my materials in the bank). I sell to merchants the rares (mostly borers) instead of waiting on them to sell from vendors.

I watch twitch/youtube videos and the high earners are in groups fighting hoards of mobs and looting until they can't carry any more. Then merchant all garbage and repeat. I feel they deserve their big bank accounts for being able to do this.

I don't see how this is going to make the econ better when the same 40+hr/week players will just keep doing what they are doing with added stops to the Oracle.

 

Actually I don't know where this "10% to 90%"-idea is coming from. I don't think anyone here got any hard facts about such numbers. Did I miss some dev-post about that? Fact is, things are way ahead from being finished and there is way more true content to actually play with needed. Alot of this content will come from the players as it is already happening, but alot will have to come from the devs and the designers.

 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/upcoming-economic-balance-changes.61999/

 

Meh, at that point, aside from the need to coordinate the group, the combat isn't all that much more difficult than farming chickens and sheep in Owl's Head. What you are saying is that players that have invested a lot of time are entitied to big profits which is a dangerous proposition in a closed economy.

 

Quote : "What you are saying is that players that have invested a lot of time are entitied to big profits which is a dangerous proposition in a closed economy."

Not sure what you mean by "entitled" and "profits"? They get the collective bounty of their work. Let's say and average player earns 1k/hr. If I play/farm for 5 hour a week I earn 5k gold. If a different player plays/farms for 20 hours a week he earns 20k. No one is entitled here, there are no better or worse profits. "Entitlement" would be the guy only playing 5 hours a week wanting and getting what the guy playing 20 hours a week gets. I like to call them Millennials.

 

One of the eternal arguments around here is that crafters are not guaranteed a profit because components are more valuable than finished goods. However, you posit that when adventurers manage to create a scenario where they can trivially harvest money at low risk, they should be guaranteed a profit under the assumption that being able to manufacture the scenario entitles them to that profit.

 

You're confused about the meaning of "profit." Profits can only exist when there's some monopoly and / or some amount of risk, others are unwilling to take. Otherwise, at best, you can cover your opportunity cost. But you never will, because people will craft just for the xp.

 

I don't know if it was "well I don't have a problem...." I think "pacing" is a very real situation for people. If 90% of the player population wants to dabble in everything all the time, and have money for it, then it might not be that "90% of the players are broke" as Darkstarr mentioned in his economy post (paraphrasing here).

I know that I cannot buy top tier gear all at once. I know that I cannot spend all my money on decorations at once. I do not have a taxed lot, so with that I can see there is a major problem. Certainly they should aim for their target of how much gold people need to earn daily in order to pay for those lots. This is, of course, the major part of the problem - but I would dare say it is nowhere near the 90% that was mentioned.

In addition, I think the post about "pacing" was generally a good common sense one. You cannot have everything in the game at the same general time - things are going to have to be earned. And not everyone is going to be successful with their lots/vendors (location x 3).

And it comes down to why you play this game. I am in it for adventure, gear and loot. Money is a means to an end for me, although I know that once I start hitting 80% on my active skills my reagent costs will skyrocket. My worry is that by trying to "fix" things, they will only make them worse. They cannot please 90% of the people 90% of the time.

And for my part, because this is all anecdotal: I am at around adenture level 62. I haven't bought much in a while, other than supplies (reagents/repair kits). I hover around 20k+ with selling loot and buying supplies. My guild crafters are very generous with their time and advice, and I just bring them materials to make what I want. Yes, this gives me an advantage over a percentage of people - but not 90%. However, if I were to buy one piece of gear at a time I am sure I could do so over several weeks (which is the equivalent of me gathering mats).

So you have two competing interests - taxed lots and gear. Not everyone has or needs taxed lots. Gear, everyone needs. And not all lots are going to produce a lot of income - it's just the way of things. So, people also have to prioritize their needs vs. their wants.

And don't flame me for owning a tax-free deed. I did it to support the game. I did not do it to become some master merchant. Besides, mine is outside the general area of the PoT I occupy, so it's not like I get any traffic. I doubt anyone has ever visited my lot.

 

If the devs held this opinion, they would have addressed it a long tome ago, instead of after final wipe when sales tanked (go look at the spreadsheet).

It's a revenue-driven fire alarm.

*shakes head*

 

I remember that one time I used to sell cars. I worked 50 hours a week making $3k. This new guy comes in. He can only work 20 hours a week because he has school. So the boss decides "hey you will get a bonus commission every time you ask me for help so you can make $3k a week like our boy Ace over there."*


*Story not based on actual events

 

Not sure why I'm taking the time to reply to this, but...

This isn't a problem that could have been addressed prior to final wipe when nothing was permanent. Everything was temporary and the population reacted accordingly. One of the motivations to moving to persistence was to be able to see the economy in action and adjust prior to the marketing push and official launch.
There was a design, and (as many things do) the battle plan didn't survive first contact with the enemy (Helmuth von Moltke the Elder).
The Dev Team has reacted, being able to see the effects of the actual behavior of the player base in a persistent world, and have developed a plan to address it.

Personally, I'm happy that the problem was seen and diagnosed prior to the official release, while the population is still relatively small, and the game is still relatively unknown. Had this been a normal game release, and this problem had occurred after large numbers of people were active in-game, it would have been a problem of much larger scope. As it is, there is time to take corrective actions prior to that happening.

 

* Story fixed to more accurately reflect events

 

I would be interested to know what percentage of people who pledged are actually playing the game as opposed to waiting for launch before getting involved? There are many Star Citizen backers who have not yet played. When those SOTA backers finally jump in then they are in for a shock just like me. If they pledged for property and like me did not really understand tax free lots and stuff then they can not place their home for which they handed over real money. For those who say that I should not have spent the money unless I understood what I was getting into I say "Ok fair enough I made a mistake so give me a refund and I will go invest in another game that I DO understand." I also say that it was up to SOTA to make all this clear when they sold me my property, after all my money helped them to develop the game but my property is unavailable to me.
UO became bollocks because it was sold to EA (by Mr Garriot by the way) but this game is screwed BECAUSE of Mr Garriot.

 

There are lots available in non-POT Towns for every lot Tax Free deed included with a pledge or Taxed sold through the Add-On store plus a 30% overage not counting those "Standard" deeds that have been used in POTs. Every backer will be able to claim a lot as promised.

EA acquired Origin Systems on September 10, 1992.
UO Launched on September 24th, 1997.

There was never a time that UO existed or was even conceived of prior to EA owning Origin Systems.

These dates are public record and easily verifiable, yet this is a persistent misconception.

 

I like the concept of Work Orders; however, one thing I would love to see is that you can see ALL work orders, not only work orders based on what you currently have in your inventory, that way you can see what someone is looking for and know what to create in order to fulfill it.

 

In regards to Tungsten, I find we get such a small amount from mining that I would rather hold onto it; especially if any items we can create for it may become in demand in the future.

 

I played in every release through 32, then I stopped. Not investing any more time in this game because:

1. It's broken and NOT fun
2. Not wasting my time on a game I don't believe will ever make it to release in a playable (meaning "fun") state. I'm taking a wait-and-see stance on SotA.