It's a sad day for me

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Vooch, Sep 13, 2016.

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  1. DepGames

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    Let's keep it in perspective. It's just a game.

    Although I suspect there are a few here who believe it to be real...
     
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  2. Lord-Galiwyn

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    I know many of us do,his post did not make it clear if it is in game or not.
     
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  3. VZ_

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    sure. first of all, lock all your skills. set them to maitain. all of them. I had this problem early on as well and was gaining NOTHING.

    secondly, prioritize. select 2-4 skills you will be working actively. Remember that stat skills, like the ones fro str, dex and int take 4x or so the amount of xp that other skills do. passives in general take more xp, maybe 2x? I could be off on both amounts, maybe like 8x and 4x, respectively.

    Start off by NOT raising any of your action skills (red skills activatable during combat) above 40. After 40 the focus costs increase more than the damage, so leave them at 40 until later.

    Passives that are important to you should all be brought up to 40 at first as well.

    Once you get the skills you like all up to 40, begin to prioritize 1-2 skills at a time. you will be gaining them as well as extra pool xp.

    I recommend prioritizing survivability skills at first - your str (hp and damage) and dex (hit chance and dodge). Get those bad boys to 40-50. Then start on the other survivability passives, like your armor skills, extra damage, whatever, get those to 50-60. At this point you should be able to solo 3-4 skulls easy. You'll see what you need most and begin working those skills. Remember to only do a few at once. i recommend 2. Once you're trying to get your passive HIGH, and i mean above 80, above 90 and into GM, only work that one skill. An important note, you should only begin this task after you are comfortable in most 4-5 skull zones. trying to GM a skill in lower zones will take forever, get your character 4-5 skull ready first.

    Once your stat skills are at 40-50, freeze (maintain) them and leave them for last, they take an incredible amount of xp and do not bring immediate benefits (once you have 300 or so hp you should be good for most zones).

    I personally would leave raising the action skills above 40-50 until AFTER you GM your main passive (blades for me) and get your other passives to a respectable number - maybe 60-80.

    @Oakenhammer I started sword and shield just like you. I dropped the shield pretty quickly because that tree is just not useful right now unless you pvp. Grab a 2 handed sword and you'll see your damage skyrocket. Heavy armor is what i use as well, i only got the passives up to 40-50 as of right now, ignored the actives completely, only to unlock the next skill down.

    I play 10-15 hours a week. true story.

    I do a lot of crafting and resource gathering, i'm 100% self sufficient, in no way am I a grinder or min/maxer. this game is designed rather well that the casuals can compete nicely against the hardcore no-lifers. I was able to do 5 skulls solo about a month into persistence, thats with my relatively low play schedule and me stopping to smell the virtual roses frequently. I never do just one thing in game, in zones i stop to gather, skin and look around. efficiency in games is not my goal, enjoyment is.



    I think the #1 problem with housing taxes is that they are quite a burden unless you know what you're doing in game. selling housing for cash and to players who are essentially either just starting out or have not played at all was a huge disservice to the community, though I'm sure it padded Port's development budget nicely. Especially the larger houses, there is just no way a newbie player (and I use the term without offense) can support such costs. Larger houses should have always been something a player works towards, not something they can pop hundreds of USD on and attain immediately -- I am referring of course to the taxed lots.

    good luck all. I'd be happy to answer any other questions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
  4. Koldar

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    @VZ_ Good advice, thank you for posting! It sounds like micromanaging skills is unavoidable if you want a quick progression to 5-skull scenes. Unfortunate, but it is what it is.
     
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  5. nonaware

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    i dont think this is micro managing skills i think its just putting effort to learn the system and a basic thought into how you want your character to progress.

    i understand some people dont want to have to think to play a game they just want to go out and pew pew i get it we are here for fun after all.

    this system just takes a little thought into what kinda character you want then you work on a part of that character slowing becoming what you at end of your journey want to be.
     
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  6. Themo Lock

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    yes, and i am not the only one doing it ^.^ The only reason i even own so many assets was to help house those who could not get a deed.
     
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  7. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    It's like a drug, "you just got to go with it man" :cool::D


    and see where it takes you... :confused:
    :cool:~Time Lord~:D
     
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  8. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    "Don't break my immersion, man!"
     
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  9. DepGames

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    Um....yeah....no. It's all yours. Have at it.
     
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  10. Vooch

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    First of all, I am surprised there was over 100 responses to my forum post. I wasn't expecting that.

    I am simply upset with the direction the game is going. I know the devs are working to fix the problems, and I truly appreciate that.

    I've read all your comments and here are my responses:

    =-=-=

    > you can buy Coto for (1,300 gold) each from vendors and pay in that currency instead.

    I understand I can buy COTOs for gold. I have plenty of COTOs already. My problem was being able to raise gold to do what I want to do in the game. I am not going to sell my COTOs for 1,300 gold when they're worth 3,500 gold, ultimately.

    Unfortunately, I work a full-time job with a 2+ hour commute, so I cannot perform at the same level that everyone sitting at home 24x7 is able to do. That is why part-time players, like me, are penalized. I cannot help that fact.

    There is no value in overpaying for taxes. That is one problem.

    =-=-=

    > 1 row and 1 village taxed?

    Yes. I also own a tax-free row lot. Spent ~$500 for this game, which is amazing, since it's not even released. I've spent hundreds playing other games and over $1,000 playing EVE Online, which was extremely fun while I played it - my friends left that game a few years ago. I do not mind spending money and taking care of the developers as I am also a developer.

    =-=-=

    > The devs are aware of this; fixes are on the way, as soon as R34

    Yes they are. I will try again in R34.

    When I played in R7-9, I did not mind at all when I took a break, because I knew I was losing everything on the database wipe.

    This time, since it's "persistence", when I got unhappy because of the lack of gold, public vendor losses, and rental fees, it was a serious blow because there's only so many times a person will get pissed off and leave a game permanently. For Ultima Online, I quit 3-4 times before I was done. Everyone has their own number.

    I can sympathize with the devs because they needed some numbers (a thousand players) to get some data, but that also comes at an price, and for me, it was painful. When I used the public vendors around the world and lost 50,000 gold because the items were not returned to me after 7 days, I got very upset. This was one pain point for me, so I hope the devs recognize this!

    =-=-=

    > Using you scepter also gives you 15k in credit each month.

    I do not own a scepter.

    =-=-=

    > perhaps an upgrade would enhance his productivity

    I'm playing with +3 to +5 weapons and armor.

    =-=-=

    > Seriously tho 344 gold for 1 day... dont know how to react to this troll statement

    It was simply the straw that broke the camel's back. The constant problems led up to this event.

    =-=-=

    > So you are up to find leaving players and "re direct" them to other games?

    No. I am waiting for the devs to fix the problems that they are already aware about. It is much better that I raise awareness to things that make me unhappy playing the game because I care about the game. If I was trolling the game, I wouldn't have returned over $200 worth of stuff my guildmates lent me. I'm not a troll.

    =-=-=

    > I don't have rent tax to pay but there'd be absolutely no way I could afford it with what I can rake in an hour after
    > reagent costs.

    Amen brother!

    =-=-=

    > This is how it should be for lower level characters. You have to work your way up the ladder. People should not expect to
    > start the game as money-making, mob-stomping beasts. And some people may build wrong and gimp themselves a bit. Everyone
    > will be different.

    > The thing is, if you are new, and have decided to plop down some land, you are essentially hurting yourself if it is NOT a
    > tax free lot. It is a heavy tax burden for a new player. I actually believe Portalarium missed an opportunity to see this
    > problem for new players that have taxed lots. The amount of money required cannot be made by a new character. And this is
    > partly Portalarium's fault for creating the "land rush", but the player who is new and does this to themselves (gets a
    > taxed lot early) has to take some responsibility. It's like taking out a credit card and not having the funds to support
    > using it, or even worse, taking out a mortgage and not being able to pay it. I know that this runs counter to the "land
    > rush" system - that is, that if you don't get something now there will be nothing later. But haven't they said there is (or
    > will be) enough land to support players?

    > And then there is the further (exacerbating) problem of location, location, location. Not every lot with a vendor will make
    > money, depending on where it is located. So, picture a new player who gets a taxed lot in a corner of a small, rarely
    > visited town. This is just asking for trouble. There are many possible solutions, but I think it is a real problem that
    > Portalarium should look at. Lotteries are not the solution.

    This is an excellent post.

    Right now, I am of the opinion that the devs should foster the building of Player Owned Towns by setting the tax rate very low while people move in and get established. I lost money every day having a vendor in a POT. Sure, I can spend real dollars to solve my problem, and I'm sure Portalarium would love that, but I refuse to spend real dollars when it is wasteful. Instead, I am complaining because the taxes are too damn high right now! The value is simply not there when moving into POTs while they're being established and because of that, there should be tax breaks.

    I feel Portalarium is getting greedy (unknowing the unintended consequences), and unless someone like me is around to slap some sense in their face, it will continue ad nauseum. As for me, I will not stay around if the nonsense continues.

    =-=-=

    > I can run into the Serpent Spine Foothills (blah blah blah)

    Unfortunately, I cannot.

    =-=-=

    > I fully appreciate taking personal responsibility. However, if you have a bunch of broke low level chars, who aren't having
    > fun, how long will they stay to experience the high levels? My concerns are for the longevity of the game. If I am netting
    > less that 1000g a day, I highly doubt I'll be active. I doubt I'm the only one who will be effected in that way. And having
    > a low server population will not have a positive outcome for those who remain.

    Totally agree.

    =-=-=

    > What I love about this, is the fact that he has yet to reply once on this forum, which he has started, to explain
    > anything at all.

    I am doing this now. I'm sorry, but I only have a few hours a day for this, and I spent the past couple days returning
    items people lent me in the game and hauling stuff back to the bank.

    =-=-=

    > Also, the fact that he apparently decided against asking guild mates or friends "why come I no has gold", and instead just
    > came here, ranted about how he's not 1-shotting things, owning too much non tax free property, and that he's leaving. Just
    > saying.

    My guildmates and the devs know I am unhappy playing this game. I am not the type of person that asks for handouts, even though some guildmates lent me a few items.

    =-=-=

    > Any game like this that you play requires that you level up your character, which takes time. I think some people (not you
    > in particular) have this need for immediate gratification. I get that, I do. However, in a game like this you have to plan
    > out your "life" in the game. I am not ready to take on dragons. I will one day, a long way off. That is a goal I set for
    > myself. Right now I am training to get to a higher level, where I can take on more challenging content. The lower level you
    > are, the more you should be attacking things your level. But, I get it, the rewards are not there yet for lower level
    > players.

    Fair enough, but I am unhappy.

    =-=-=

    > You're clearly looking for a complete game so I suggest you check back at release

    Perhaps, but this is "persistence".

    =-=-=

    > That's great you're returning things back to people.

    Thank you.

    =-=-=

    > Now, did you read any of the comments at all?

    Yes, but I didn't have a chance to respond until now.

    =-=-=

    > How many plots/houses do you have?

    One tax-free row lot deed (I have to almost stand near the stairs before the vendor appears) - this is a dev problem.

    One taxable row lot deed (to share amongst people that needed housing - since I left, they easily moved into other nearby housing offered by other people willing to help)

    One taxable village lot deed (to hang out near guildies in a POT)

    Since my original post, I've removed taxable properties, returned all borrowed items, and stopped playing the game. I will revisit the game when the devs fix the problems. If it's unenjoyable again, I will stop playing again - it's a no-brainer.

    =-=-=

    > Why are you relying on the public vendor to make the money?

    I sold items on public vendors around the world, then promptly lost 50,000 gold when my items didn't sell after 7 days. Instead of returning the items to me, the game "stole them" (my opinion) from me. I also had access to two commission-free vendors, and I bought a vendor for 20,000 gold. The results were a huge failure.

    =-=-=

    > But many of us may forget that this game can be hard for new people who have not played an MMO.

    I have played many MMOs to great success.

    =-=-=

    > A detail that many of the more advanced players of this, especially the ones more invested in the game, is that some of the
    > mechanics are cryptic.

    Agree.

    =-=-=

    > I figured out combat decks and combos fairly recently(big step up in the game)...

    Combos are not clearly defined in the game. I've tried many times, but I have no idea if I'm actually doing a combo correctly, so the devs need to improve upon this!

    =-=-=

    > He has some nice crafted stuff to work with. Folks get understandably frustrated with some of the unbalanced or unfinished
    > aspects of the game.

    > Just gotta remmeber that its a known issue thats being worked on, and that the game is not complete yet. Some folks take
    > these threads as an opportunity to compare SotA to long-completed products, and will continue to claim this game is no
    > longer in testing, when the fact is that it is indeed still in testing, and unfinished. The development team says it is
    > incomplete, so any opinion otherwise is untrue.

    > Vooch is frustrated like many people are with the taxes. And he is venting his frustrations like many others have. But the
    > devs are aware of it and are working on it.

    Agree.

    =-=-=

    > If you're running light armor, make sure to get Sprint. You also should try to get Dash from the Air tree if you
    > don't have it yet.

    I've got both and they are high.

    =-=-=

    > Sorry, I understand why people get upset, but I get upset when those same people don't try to fix or work around
    > whatever upsets them

    I've tried and failed. I'm taking a break.

    =-=-=

    > I feel ya, if I didn't have a tax free deed I wouldn't be bothered with this game either.

    Thank you.

    =-=-=

    > If paying taxes on a lot would turn you off of the game, why not just stop using a house period?


    For the social aspect of the game. Hanging around, having celebrations, playing music. There's a lot of 0 gold activities that people have in the game. The people that want to have fun with others and not grind are penalized in the game.

    I've paid money to put down properties, some for social reasons to help other players, and I cannot even use these lots to help other players because the taxes are too damn high. I am not the only one that has this opinion! I've seen several people also take a break for said reason.

    This is a serious problem that the devs must address or this game is gonna fail in a big way. They understand, but I'm not coming back until it's fixed.

    If things are going great for you, that's great. Things are not going well enough for me.

    =-=-=

    > As far as the average player who gets bored of grinding quickly goes, having to target JUST gold to grind for 2 hours a
    > day to keep 2 of the smallest available lots in the game is understandably frustrating and likely does need to be toned
    > down a bit. (specifically the village lot taxes)

    Agree.

    =-=-=

    > I am sorry you are having a tough time as other are also with taxes. The dev's have already stated they know the large
    > majority of players are having a tough time with money. They announced plans in the works to try to fix this situation.
    > I would encourage you to hang on until it gets brought into the game. Best of luck and hope to still see you playing.

    Thank you. I hope they do.

    =-=-=

    > at this point, there should be no taxes. that should be implemented when the game launches. or even after THAT. right now,
    > because the options are limited to make tax money, the hours you put in are boring as can be - i mean, worse than having to
    > run around everywhere in Neverwinter nights. you burn out by the time you are able to make 4k an hour.

    Totally agree.

    =-=-=

    > I understand deeds are a source of income but the system is severely broken

    Agree.

    =-=-=

    >I didn't come back to playing after the wipe, until I was able to place the house

    >I'm a pack rat, so sue me - it's how play - too bad it's not how you play - oh wait, I don't really care how you play since
    >it doesn't affect me

    >It breaks the game for me because I see housing as an integral part of MMO's - that's why. Without housing, I'm not
    >interested in playing

    >I didn't "back" the game because of the game, I paid real money to have a tax free deed - that's what I did because I saw
    >the writing on the wall for ridiculous amounts of taxes - insane!

    >As far as the game, I don't really see "what the game is/is going to be" personally.

    >I log in a few times here and there, but not as much as I used to - it's not a game I see having any longevity for me
    >personally.

    Totally agree. I think the devs should pay high attention to this one because it's a game killer.

    =-=-=

    > perhaps... just maybe your expectations did not match the current reality in the game.

    Agree.

    =-=-=

    > One such will be the "visit the Oracle" thing which you can do each day...I don't think they hit the proposed 500g/day
    > figure by accident...it effectively will pay the rent on a row.

    Why would I want to come home from a hard day of work and waste a ton of time to run around the world to visit the Oracle to get 500 gold? That does not sound like a fun time for me. That sounds like hard work. FML.

    =-=-=

    > There's too much elitist (explicit) going on in this thread.

    Agree. I only get to play a few hours a weekday and a lot on the weekends.

    =-=-=

    > It sounds like micromanaging skills is unavoidable if you want a quick progression to 5-skull scenes. Unfortunate,
    > but it is what it is.

    I do not micromanage skills, and I will never. I wish the game never showed the pooled experience numbers for all the OCD folks out there, as it ruins the game, imo.

    =-=-=

    > I think the #1 problem with housing taxes is that they are quite a burden unless you know what you're doing in game.

    Agree, but it's not the only major problem. As I've stated earlier, public vendors are a huge problem.

    =-=-=

    > selling housing for cash and to players who are essentially either just starting out or have not played at all was a huge
    > disservice to the community, though I'm sure it padded Port's development budget nicely.


    I do not sell housing for cash. I do not believe in it. I've let someone live at my place without rent in order to help him prosper in the game. Then, the game nerfs everything I do and gives me the shaft several times over. This is why I left until a patch fixes the problems.

    =-=-=

    POSTMORDEM:

    - The game makes me unhappy right now. Therefore, I have decided to stop playing temporarily.
    - I know the devs are working to fix the problems. I appreciate them and I hope they continue improving things.
    - The game takes too long to switch between instances. I know I will have to buy a new computer to fix this problem.
    - Some people feel that I put down too many properties. This is a problem.
    - Part-time players are at a disadvantage.
    - Social players are at a disadvantage.
     
  11. Dumdidum

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    I will not be playing this game and have a (not-used) row house deed from my 250 dollar pledge.
    You can have it The Vooch.
    Contact me for details via forum pm.
     
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  12. Time Lord

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    ':eek: Break the Mold! Take Risks! Stay the Course! Be the Future!

    Our SOTA is Making the Future, Today!
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
  13. Hunter Rose

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    A response to your :

    POSTMORDEM:

    - The game makes me unhappy right now. Therefore, I have decided to stop playing temporarily.

    Breaks from something you are doing that makes you unhappy are wonderful if you have the option to do so. And I am happy you are looking at this temporarily.

    - I know the devs are working to fix the problems. I appreciate them and I hope they continue improving things.

    Yep. Pretty much in development here - not a balanced or complete game at all. But they need our feedback and our metrics to figure that out and it is probably taking longer than anyone would have thunk. Let's keep in mind here that Destiny took about 500 Million dollars to make.. and we are headed to 11.

    - The game takes too long to switch between instances. I know I will have to buy a new computer to fix this problem.

    I recommend adding a really fast solid state hard drive and allocating your swap file on that drive... it's like magic making those long load times faster and really won't cost that much unless you head into the TB range.

    - Some people feel that I put down too many properties. This is a problem.

    Not sure how to respond to this one. I have one property right now and it looks like an empty warehouse and will probably take years to get it to be where I want it.. so yeah maybe.

    - Part-time players are at a disadvantage.

    I have an 8 hour a day job - 5 days a week, and a 2 hour commute and a very active social life. I play a couple hours a night and 10 hours on the weekend. I am rocking in 4 and 5 skull areas, and earning about 1 k an hour of play. You may need to rethink your overall character build here.

    - Social players are at a disadvantage.

    I don't know what this means. The only reason why social players have a disadvantage maybe is the time spent socializing is not time spent building your toon? Also maybe if you resource farm in Multiplayer you may not find the resources? But then I start thinking about resource farming and wanting to farm resources as fast as i can and not really wanting to socialize at all. I would consider that an interruption and somewhat annoying. BUT when I adventure I log into multiplayer on line and just yesterday had a fantastic encounter where my friend and I were serenaded by this bard and his friend who was dancing. We joined in and I loved it... partly because I wasn't resource farming. So yeah I don't know what you mean about this.

    Fantastic thread! I do think after you take a break your absence will be temporary :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
  14. Greyfox

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    @The Vooch

    What you are experiencing based upon the feedback provided is a sandbox. A sandbox takes time to develop because we, the community, are closely involved with the mechanics of the virtual world. A sandbox isn't for every gamer. Some, in fact most gamers will prefer cookie cutter theme parks.

    You made two mistakes. In a theme park mistakes are minimized due to pushing you along the ride. In a sandbox mistakes can be significant because you're driving.

    First you listed 50k in items all at once. You either listed items unwanted or you listed too high. The sandbox marketplace decided the outcome. The developers put a penalty into the system so people wouldn't overcharge and over-list. As a gamer it is your responsibility to understand the gaming mechanics and accept the outcome. Because, you made the choice.

    Secondly you had too many properties and a desire to place them all. The rules were clearly defined. Tax rates in place. You had access to a tax free property, you didn't NEED multiple properties. I feel in this case greed was a factor (again) and you failed to properly manage your funds. In a sandbox you could easily have sold those lot locations to someone else and made a profit. You could have tried to rent them out. You could have given them to some of those guild mates who gave you so much. The options are nearly limitless because once again we are in a sandbox.

    Sorry to be frank with you buddy, but this is 100% your failure. Accept the mistakes you made and learn from them.

    Looking forward to your return after a hard lesson learned. Keep in mind that time spent away is going to further separate you from those of us suffering through the early growing pains of our amazing sandbox.

    BTW: I've made PLENTY of mistakes and realized you only learn from the mistakes, not from the successes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
  15. Gideon Thrax

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    @The Vooch - the largest majority of people (with placed taxable deeds) hate the tax rates, and economic balance as is only serves to exacerbate the feeling. Give it some time... eventually, the devs will fix the economy or change the tax rates... they'll have to. Get some popcorn and watch the upcoming housing raffle... I'm projecting 2/3 or more of the deeds won will end up in the marketplace. Only the folks with enough gold to buy tickets will get a chance to win deeds... and everyone already knows 90% of the gold belongs to 10% of the players.

    you said:
    "Right now, I am of the opinion that the devs should foster the building of Player Owned Towns by setting the tax rate very low while people move in and get established. I lost money every day having a vendor in a POT. Sure, I can spend real dollars to solve my problem, and I'm sure Portalarium would love that, but I refuse to spend real dollars when it is wasteful. Instead, I am complaining because the taxes are too damn high right now! The value is simply not there when moving into POTs while they're being established and because of that, there should be tax breaks."

    I'd like to see them go even further and waive all taxes until launch. The gold crown is sunk... people are putting all their earnings into crafting, hoarding, and taxes - there is no economy less a few anomalies and those locations seem to contradict lore.... there's much to be fixed before the players take over.

    All that said, it's still fun to play... hit me up in game, and I'll help you find some gold.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
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  16. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    There's something going on within our economy discussion thread which has both the elements presented in this thread. Some have so much gold that they don't need it and are offering charity, while others haven't enough gold to make it within our game.

    There's a big question here... "why do we need more gold than is necessary, when there's only so much gold in the world?"

    One player named @curt , I believe has a good answer for that. Here's a thread shortcut to that discussion...
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...mic-balance-changes.61999/page-13#post-654121
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
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  17. mithra

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    Would my gut be wrong if it were telling me that economic "balance" will be the sweet spot of whatever drives people to the cash shop without putting such tacks to them that they quit? This is the problem with the cash shop model, players can't trust that anything that goes on the game is designed without consideration of revenue objectives.
     
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  18. Kara Brae

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    Thank you very much for this great levelling-up advice. I've seen so many other posts by high level players claiming how easy it is to do this and that, but when you ask how they do it they don't reply.

    I am also glad I found this thread because I had never paid much attention to COTOs and didn't realize how much cheaper it is to buy COTOs with gold and pay taxes with them than it is to pay taxes with gold directly. Thanks to those players who pointed this out! I went out and spent my savings on 6 COTOs, which will pay my row lot tax for quite a while. :)
     
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  19. DancingShade

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    Great advice. I wish I'd known all that when I was first levelling!
     
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