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Good example of a great dialoge system

Discussion in 'Release 33 Feedback Forum' started by Lord_Darkmoon, Sep 25, 2016.

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  1. Bubonic

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    It seems like you are making a huge amount of excuses for what are obviously rather large gaps in the design and lore of the game.

    You can explain anything away with glasses that have red enough lenses ;)
     
  2. Gix

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    So they never saw a map or never met a traveler? Then they shouldn't even know said town even existed in the first place. If they don't know, wouldn't they be aware of someone who does? Can't they just refer me to that person?

    You'll notice that some of these NPCs are retired adventurers.

    If the town is that large, then I want them to tell me "I don't know anyone by that name, but I only hang out in this part of town" or whatever... At least that should give me an idea that the NPC understood the question and that whatever I'm looking for isn't near that NPC and I might try another district.

    None of that "I don't understand" bull.

    In real life, people can tell me where there ISN'T a local law office; it narrows it down. I don't need you to know where my local McDonalds is, but you should be able to figure out whenever or not you have a McDonalds in your town too.

    In real life I actually have more tools available to get the information I want/need. Like shouting really loudly and scream "Does ANYONE know where this is?", "Can ANYONE help me?"

    I also have the ability to refuse their request and EXPLAIN to them why I'm not doing it without losing karma just as much as I would have the ability to buy them a drink and offer counsel.

    I also have the ability to find ways to break through most doors or through windows.

    If the game is going to spring the "real life" argument on me, then the game needs to do better than that. Not to mention that I believe that gameplay should always trump simulation.

    We got smiths, innkeepers, bards, wizards, bandits, trained guards, assassins, sailors, lords, kobolds that invent things (like GUNS) and you're telling me that none of them are smart enough know where stuff is?

    I don't expect farmers to know much (although the farmers I knew irl were quite more knowledgeable than a lot of city folk I ever knew) but people living in a town or city? C'mon.

    Why make a game about talking to people if it's just going to be a bunch of "I don't know" or "duhhh! Me dumb!" Why are you giving me a LETTER to deliver if you don't know WHERE it's going? How the hell did you write that letter in the first place?

    A simple "it's due south of here" is way more practical and I don't buy for a second that story gets diminished because of it... I'd even go as far to say that it re-enforces it. I refuse to believe that an entire world exists with ONLY ignorant folks that are still alive...

    It doesn't need to be precise, it just needs to be clear; it's a small yet important nuance. I wouldn't even be mad if some of them lied... so long as there are some who tell the truth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
  3. Time Lord

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    ~Environmental Surroundings Effect Our Storyline~
    That depends on what lenses you are seeing the real world through ;) We not only have preconditioned assumptions, we also have conditional cult behavior in denial of self evident facts. If our quest makers are going to change their course, then they too must be taught to exclude their own presumptions of what they see as good quest, "which you yourself agree with that needs to become better" ;)

    Many times it's the question that's more important than the answer, because without the question, then there is no answer to solve any question. We must question in quests, or it's then not a quest, it's only a storyline with multiple preordained different endings.

    So the only way to fix a quest, is to add questions, because questions are quests for answers and not just to which fork in the road we wish to be taken. If we are to move beyond simple robotic narratives, we must move on to deeper questions which rise from the environment in which we find ourselves.

    If this is the same as reading some book with multiple endings, then all we will be left with if we remove the graphics and environment is just a book which we could have more easily read rather than ever question. We currently in this thread are questioning what quests should be with unsatisfactory findings and we are also doubting it's method of delivery.

    Are we content with reading a book which never questions what considerations we have which are provided by our environment? Our gaming environment has swards, medieval styling and a seemingly inescapable question to be answered of "why are we here?" "Why" becomes the question and "here" becomes the environment. The motive aperati to even take the quests are to find out why we are here.


    Many may not have.


    I would see this as helpful, yet also they may just be giving us the "brush off".


    Compassion may not be as universal as we may think, which could be evident by so many not having had a social system that takes care of everyone.


    I know that even in a city as packed with people as New York that same question could get no answer at all during different parts of it's history.


    They all may not be able to write or read, yet some can, but not possibly all and everyone is not a traveler, thus some may be giving the brush off, while others may not know.


    I agree with you, because this stimulates a search for the truth either by trial and error or by interviews with a more broad spectrum of the public at hand.


    I can ask many of these same questions here in Thailand and get immediate help which may bring their entire family to try and help find the answer, while if I asked the same question in Iraq or Syria I may not get any response or even a negative response because of their current fractured by violence culture. All of these seem like excuses because they are, yet they are excuses which take away the presumptive and replace it with the unknown which is a much more factual description of this strange world we find ourselves in, "which seems unexplainable when compared with what we know from our lives back on Earth". When things don't make sense we must take a longer look at the action of what's going on rather than the words that are being said, then attempt to put the 2 together for ourselves to decide which way to go or what person to question.

    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
  4. Moiseyev Trueden

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    Sad but true. All the people with a double digit or higher IQ were killed. It's why its taken them so long to rebuild and why they are dependent on outsiders to do anything (like deliver the mail). There is also probably an analogy involved with over reliance on the Oracle in the lessening of the brain power of the locals...
     
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  5. Time Lord

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    This is one thing I see as not there at all when watching their actions. They never ever go to see the Oracle and maybe the Oracle brought us here because she was dying or getting rusted up from the loneliness :p

    [​IMG]
    ~Time Lord~:D
     
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  6. Gix

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    I don't want to live in that world, much less play in it.

    We're still talking about a fictional world in a video game, right? Because I'm looking for something that is playable and entertaining. Because, right now, the game's longevity amounts to the equivalent to a fly's lifespan.

    Some people are willing to give a damn if you offered to pay for their time. Considering that I'm loaded with weaponry in SotA, if Novia was a real place, I could threaten anyone to give me answers. "I'm trying to save your pathetic life, help me help you or I'll make sure to spare the burden for everyone by cutting your head off..."

    Can I do that in SotA? Of course not. But I don't need to; I just need NPCs to know something so that I can get an idea of what I'm supposed to do.

    You're grasping straws here. My point is that I have way more control over my actions and words in the real world than I do on my character while playing SotA. The list of actual solutions is ridiculously small in the game yet the possibilities to troubleshoot them remain massive because some people are more keen in building a "real world" simulator rather than an enjoyable video game.

    I'm not asking for NPCs to be actually intelligent, I'm asking for NPCs to be worth talking to.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  7. Smurfwizard

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    Since this is still in Alpha and there is allot of other improvements needing to accomplished first, Getting all of the zones built and polished, balancing the combat and crafting systems, then I believe when the quests are implemented then you will also see more of the NPC interactions changed.
     
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  8. Gix

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    I sure hope so. Official word says that a good portion of it at/near Soltown is "working as intended" so I'm not holding my breath.
     
  9. Time Lord

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    [​IMG]
    Rated PG-17...
    [​IMG]
    Richard Garriott's dream for us... make it as real as it can feel :D
    [​IMG]
    There have been some disappointing comments made by the team about the "Companions" and their ability to be custom equipped, yet I do hope for more in their levels of interactiveness ;)
    [​IMG]
    I think they should just answer the phone once in a while o_O...
    ~Time Lord~:D
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  10. Gix

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    The principles of the Uncanny Valley still applies, though, and I urge anyone on the dev team to be mindful about it.
     
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  11. docdoom77

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    Beautiful! I would adore something like this. Unfortunately, they've said no to portraits several times and I don't think they understand how poor the current chat box is. It needs a great deal of work.
     
  12. Bubonic

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    Something tells me the Uncanny Valley is a benchmark we are not going to have to worry about crossing with this game.
     
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  13. Gix

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    You keep things simple and people will find it endearing (Ultima 4, for example); you make things obnoxious and complicated for the sake of realism and you risk crossing that border.

    If you're trying too hard to make them act like humans at the expense of game-play, then I fully expect them to act like one.

    They do not act like humans.

    I want to play a video game.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
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  14. Time Lord

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    [​IMG]
     
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