Q4 2016 Schedule Update

I agree. I definitely think a starting point should be by the docks.

 

Well then they don't need Dev Support.
They can just make a Guild and be done with it like everybody else.

 

@DarkStarr the more I think about it the more I dislike the newbiguild idea.
You are basically creating a megaguild for people that say they help. Without any need.
I would go as far as saying it's a Dev megaguild.
And the only explanation is the Hospitallers want it?
Not good enough for me tbh.

Edit:
The only way i would be willing to accept this is that ppl get autoejected after 4 weeks and never can join again.
And even than it would still leave a bad taste in my mouth because most of them would join guilds of the Hospitaller members.

This is just a terrible bad idea, sorry.

 

I haven't heard the reason why it's a bad idea yet. Can you explain that in brief please? We can't make a judgment off of "I don't like this".

 

There is a whole post about it in the general forums.
I will be happy to sum it up here though:

I don't like:
- that i don't know who asked for it
- i don't know who will lead it and how it's going to be handled (like: how long will ppl stay in this guild, will there be active recuuitment from the Hospitaller guilds, who is going to enforce the rules we have for the Hospitallers andd so on)
- I don't know why there was no public discussion about it here on this forum specifically the general forum
- the fact that we get a global chat through the backdoor
- the fact that it seems like nobody of the people that asked for the guild is able to answer me this basic questions though @DarkStarr said it was their idea

I would also like to know if this will replace a good toutorial. Because if this game gets a good toutorial there is no need for such a beast of a guild.

The whole idea came out of nowhere.

 

Would be interesting to hear why it's as good idea as well. No-one seems to know anything about it.

 

Indeed!

 

Came here to post exactly this. But I can see the reasoning behind it vs. a global /help channel that anyone can jump in at will, as now the channel (i.e., guiild) can be moderated by...Outlander guild leaders?

But then who are the Outlander guild leaders? How does one become an Outlander guild leader? Are they just existing Hospitallers that now co-manage two guilds?

Also, is this Outlander guild opt-in or opt-out by default? It's not clear because it says default guild, yet it was also said nobody is forced into this. So...seek out an existing Hospitaller to get invited?

 

If its opt-out, and being able to be in multiple guilds will be a feature, as described by Dallas in another post, then I have no idea why we're calling this a /help channel or a new player channel, or any other of these euphemisms. Its just global chat that you can opt out of. Lets not sugarcoat it.

 

I don't understand why people are having a heart attack over a start up guild....

I think it's a great idea. but there need to be a few conditions.

1. there should be no leadership in the since of guild leader or officers. these positions should be npc. add quests those npc give to help new players learn the game.

2. hospitallers want to help people from this guild then they need to be members them self. so they need to give up and other guild they have.
3. membership needs to be optional and you join by talking to the Oracle.

also all this being said another option is

forget the new player guild all together and just open up better chat window options. maybe making chat channels or sever chat. I never understood why dukes only had this server wide chat and noneone else. that was a lame move/ restriction.

 

This is the correct part that so many of us has said. If it is a chat problem, then fix chat.

 

I asked first . Seriously, we've stated many times why it's a good idea and why we want to do it. If the naysayers have a problem with it, then they need to state why it's a bad idea in a constructive manner, instead of just whining about it. Then we can seriously consider any concerns there are.

You've stated this many times elsewhere. We need specific reasons, not declarations.

I'll see about a separate article that can go into depth on how the new guild will work to clear up any remaining questions people may have.

 

The only two things I don't care for with the new player guild are:

1) Automatically adding the player to the guild after the tutorial, instead of having it be an optional quest (i.e., find the guildmaster and ask to join). Suddenly having a bunch of chat coming in, even with an accompanying help text, is not a great user experience.

2) Moderating the guild is going to be a nightmare. Since this basically will be the global chat option for the game, every concern we had about global chat is going to be present in this guild too. Additionally, this will always be a "secondary" guild for nearly everyone who either wants to be a Hospitaller, or wants to do recruiting for a guild, as it will be the only place to find new players.

Personally, I'll do what I do in every other game that throws me into global chat; quit the channel/guild immediately and find my own way. I'm interested in being a Hospitaller, but I'm not going to put up with global chat to do that. I think you guys can come up with something better.

 

Ok, I'll get off the fence where I was comfortably sit, and bite the bullet.

1) A default guild will turn the guild chatter into Barrens chat - with all the namecalling and bad jokes and spam and what have you. Decades of experience cannot lie: it will happen, and everybody who played anything more than Pong know it will happen with surgical certainity. Let's not fool ourselves that somehow SotA will be left alone and only behaving players will join it.

2) For all the great good will coming from wonderful people like @Elgarion , I can already see that the Outlander Guild be the perfect target of whoever intends to do NO good. It will be the main fishing tank for scammers, griefers, goldsellers and sheephunters. We all know it will happen. There's already people (ab)using the Hospitaller title to lure newbies in easy-gank scenes.

3) Getting help is great, giving help is greater, and building bonds out of this sensei-padawan relationship is greatest. But having help in form of broadcasts (what a guild chat basically is) splattered in your face when not solicited is probably one of the worst experiences you can have. Especially if we're taking into account the inevitable spoilers of storyline. Player A asks who or what is the Oracle, veteran player B answers (in good faith!), and newbies C, D and E will have the entire Episode one ruined. If this is a game built on a rich narrative, "burning" the plot is probably what you should avoid at all costs, always, no matter the price.

What's worse is that the stated solution to address these three issues is using manpower. Moderators. Devs. Hospitallers. Human beings policing the channel(s). Stated simply: it won't work. It cannot work. And we all know it: the team is too small to have someone on duty all the time. Even the Discord channel, with all the Hospitallers and Mods around, at times slides into monumental cesspoolhood. Because policing such channels is a chore you can be enthusiast about only for so long, before requiring to be paid profusely to handle. Human solution is no solution (unfortunately, I add), and tying the viability of this project to the resilience of Berek's nerves is just mobbing him via our newbies.

The constructive criticism is that there are no good solutions for the degeneration of such a channel into abysmal levels of unpleasantry, and that resorting to manual correction is naive at best. The floods of antisocial players (in the sense: unable to manage a civil interaction with others) will always outnumber the ranks of the sentinels tasked with the endeavor of keeping them under check.

I don't envy who is in charge of deciding if such an important NUE feature will go in. It may be the tool that help with player retention, and equally well be the reason why people leave the game after half an hour.

If you test the feature, be very, very, VERY aware you might not get a second chance to "do it right", tho.

 

@Berek I am leery of starting a new system when part of the problem is that our starting area is the story getting started, but it does not serve an important function besides telling the story to provide the new person with tools on how to play the game.

I don't think that adding new systems to the game solves this problem and could detract and take up time that could be better used in making the game better. I am also leery of such a system being opened to abuse. Anyone can be a Hospitaller, that is wrong in it's self. Also many new people just do not want to talk to anyone, they are shy, or they want to learn it on their own, whatever.

So I don't vote for another system at this point. Let's just fix starting out for new players by bridging the gap in the learning curve to them entering the world.
edited

 

True, as some people said this "outlander guild" will be global chat. But.. so what? Since we already have many different chat channels (guild, zone, local, whispers, etc.)... we may as well have a global chat. Some new players may not know how to go about getting into private guilds but still need help in chat.. so I say: why not?

 

It competes with the guilds that spend time talking to and recruiting people, Havoc guild fufills the same role you (portalarium) wants to create. We are a casual primary new player guild. We seek unguilded players talk to them welcome them and offer them tours and places to stay of they need it. If you arnt gonna do the same thing we do then please stay out of this market.. thanks.

 

Ummm it's not YOUR market to own........*shrug*

 

I was making a point not creating a monopoly, portalarium as a guild master does a diservice to all the other guilds that help on board new people and havoc is not the only one. If portalarium wants to do it right they will stay out of the guild buisness but make it easier for people to find the guilds that might meet individual needs.

 

I like the idea of the startup guild tho.
The game is a nightmare at the start, having that imediate help would be awesome.
Your worried that the chat is going to be nasty? And that a global chat would be any more appealing to starting players? Doubt it.
Using it to recruit into your own guild, is no different then spamming world chat. That being said, if the only way INTO the starter guild, is opting in at the start, then what are you going to do to recruit? Delete your char or make a new account just to spam a newbie guild? People likely wont stay in it more then a week, so you can make it eject after a timeframe and then it is just new people helping new people. No one in that guild is going to be asking anything overly crazy that other new players a day or 2 ahead of them wont be able to help them with.. or they would just use the forums.

I think its a much needed help to new players, and i think the people claiming its a bad idea have pretty weak reasoning behind it. Not to mention it wont actually effect anyone whose on the forums already as they clearly wont be in it unless they restarting anytime soon.
Can tell you i WISH i had a little guidence when i was starting, even from someone 2-3 days ahead of me. Would have made a worrld of difference.

I do also support a global chat that you have to manually opt into and that you can opt out of, but thats a feature needing to be added, not one or the other with a starter guild.

Now go fix the Cirt Chance issues as thats way more important of a topic! Or at least add it to the damn known issues as its a joke right now.