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Release 33 Lot Deed Raffle Winners

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Berek, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. Prince Guni

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    The world is neither black nor white. I obviously wouldn't be posting here if I wouldn't have some hope left that this was a singular event and the outcome unintended. I am not here to mourn the dead but to discuss a cure, to fix a problem. Please forget the messenger (my person) for a moment, take a break and really try to think through the whole issue at hand.
     
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  2. Elwyn

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    Well, I certainly wouldn't buy a POT-only city deed unless I was a POT owner with some way to pay the taxes for it. If that's what she has, it may not have been such a great idea. A friend? Did she ask you for advice first before spending that much? For that much she could have gotten two Edelmann equivalent pledges/bundles with tax-free village lots, AND a commission-free vendor!

    But there were only five new City PAD deeds given away in the raffle. For a few gold pieces? Only if you get lucky! That's like saying you can win a million dollars in the lottery "for a few dollars".

    Also, there is nothing stopping her from using it right now on a row or village lot with lower taxes until such time as she is able to afford the taxes for a larger lot.

    But I will admit that they perhaps should add a link to all the (now POT-only) taxable lot deeds in the store to the page that tells all about what the taxes are for each lot size. Not that they didn't mention that there would be in-game taxes, because they sure did.

    I myself bought one of the last PAD Town deeds in the store (and I wouldn't have if the sale hadn't come up on the wheel), but I already knew the taxes wouldn't be cheap. I am holding it in reserve until the time when I am ready to pay the taxes on it it, which will probably not be from me alone. Actually, Port had been saying that the Town and City size lots were really meant to be used for guild houses because the tax burden would need to be shared among a group. Is she in a guild? Perhaps they can help her pay the taxes in exchange for setting it as a chapter house.

    But again, the game is still pre-release, and the number of people playing now is nowhere near what should be expected after official release, when Port starts properly advertising it. So far it is still mostly word-of-mouth. Right now there just aren't a lot of people who would pay a lot of real money for a lot deed, other than speculators, and I guess they're all tapped out right now.

    Not everyone who "financed" this game has a problem with what is happening. I may not be a "whale", but I'm definitely at dolphin level. Anybody who thought they were somehow buying an investment that would be immediately and continuously worth money is a fool. Doubly so for those who cared more about that than playing the game. Long-term, stuff can be worth more, but there's still a lot of risk.
     
  3. David Thompson

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    I don't think you fully grasp the situation. While i personally do not think the situation is bad, adding to my total number of deeds does not make me regret buying city deeds in the add on store; Guni, Envy and Blake are making some very important points. I have happily bought accounts from Guni and gladly paid whatever his mark up is. Had i not been able to buy accounts and merge them is would have spent no more than an ancestor pledge. Ports previous policies along with people like Guni have instead buy thousands of dollars of pledges, pots and in game goodies. This account i type from was once a RF citizen account i bought from Guni, now it is a LOTM account. He helped facilitate me funneling $15,000+ roughly into pledges since i have added to each one i purchased from him. Another important service e provides is a way out for people that need to bail for personal reasons. Hopefully you wont have any family disaster that will necessitate you leaving or downgrading but people like Guni are here to help with that. Anything that hurts them, hurts all of us. More importantly, these players are talking about the reputation of SOTA. You just need to look at steam, other websites to see how precarious things are. Compare and contrast to Star Citizen, vastly different levels of funding. So while it may be amusing for some you to laugh at Guni and others having their investment in the game take a hit, it is a bit like cutting off your nose despite your face. There seems to be a growing pod of unhappy whales, that is not something to cheer.
     
  4. Prince Guni

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    Full disclosure: a few dozen of those raffled away lot deeds already ended up in my possession. I am probably going to walk away with a profit from this raffle even though I am planning to keep them off the market until it (hopefully) recovers from the current infusion of supply.

    That still doesn't change the fact that in my opinion this is very hurtful and dangerous for SotA and simply not fair to people who bought their lot deeds for a lot of real money in the store. After items get sold for real money, they should not be infused cheaper elsewhere, at least until the game is released. That doesn't mean that real money has to be the only way to obtain them. But if you offer them for gold or as rewards for activities, the value of that gold or the effort spent in the game should be in a proper relation to the real money price the item has been sold for.
     
  5. Lord Lew

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    I've so enjoyed reading this thread! The last two pages especially. My tears of laughter are very real.

    The true player whales of SoTA don't give two quick seconds about any of this. They knew that there would be a pathway for obtaining taxable deeds in game and fret not what is happening. The other type is livid because their bottom line was undercut because their foresight was overwritten by greed. To that player I say suck it up and move forward, or close up shop and liquidate.

    As for the rest of us, we will continue to play have fun and roll with it.
     
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  6. jutman

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    Oh. I fully grasp and understand the situation. More deeds, some even to players who didn't have them! More deeds for resellers to make $ on even... More happy players! I don't say this often but here it goes. "Thumbs up Port!"

    Btw stocks rise and stocks fall. You can't always get back what your initial investment!! Haha.
    Don't think of this game as an investment opportunity!
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  7. Prince Guni

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    Please consider that every raffled lot deed that is now floating on the market is one lot deed less that Portalarium will sell through the store.

    And please take a look at the Steam forums and other SotA related websites and discussions on the Internet. The issue of devaluation of items sold for money or handling of backer expectations has already become a major topic even before this raffle. I am not saying that everything posted out there is right. There are clearly also people who overreacted or are outright wrong. But this really really really should be a major concern of Portalarium and all of us. It is crucial that players and backers can maintain trust in getting good deals in the store. If the add-on store becomes like a minefield where the so-called "ignorant" who have not been reading every forum thread every day risk spending money on something that is not really worth it (because it could be obtained elsewhere for a fraction) the results could become devastating. You should not want this.

    Lastly, the mistake to think that lowering or removing the purchase cost for virtual land will lead to more people paying tax and higher monthly/recurring revenues was already made in the past by Linden Lab with Second Life. When they did this, it ignited a bit of a strawfire, making tax revenues go up for a shortwhile. In the long run, the effect was negative. Most of those ending up with land who were not able or willing to purchase it also ended up to be unable/unwilling to pay taxes after a while.
     
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  8. jutman

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    Tax free is the way to be!!
    Since you are looking at this game like the Wall Street stock exchange invest in tax free deeds.
     
  9. Satan Himself

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    The only "normal" value that Port has ever set is the price for deeds in their store. So when I bought a village POT lot I assumed, incorrectly, that Port wouldn't create a game design to flood the market with deeds and severely damage the value of my deed within just a couple of months. I don't mind the concept of a lottery. I do mind the massive SCOPE of the lottery which is outrageous if they care about backers and future sales. I mean, who would buy a deed from the store at this point when they can buy in the secondary market for a fraction of the cost?

    And this on top of high taxes? Will they be able to sell any taxable deeds from the store except to uninformed suckers?
     
  10. Prince Guni

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    I appreciate your advise, I really do. But, you know, I am an old fox who learned to adapt to the most crazy of markets and even manage to trade on sinking ships.

    At the same time I am no longer that young and that hungry though, with some grey hair in my fur. My concerns here are really realated to SotA and my concept of fairness towards backers. I don't want in the end be that fat rat that eventually jumps off a sinking ship. I want this ship to sail and the people who backed and who helped finance this project to properly feel rewarded for what they put in. I want SotA to have a great reputation and get better Steam reviews. I want a reasonable balance between in game and store. I want someone get rewarded with a lot deed for organizing a tournament or building a great guild, not for farming the most gold. I really don't know how you feel about all this, but even though it seems we still don't fully agree on the strategy we should have a lot of the same goals and concerns here.
     
  11. jutman

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    Seems like we do, and I quote James Bond "Last rat standing".
     
  12. Waxillium

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    R34 Lot Deed Raffle: R34 will be our second Lot Deed Raffle and there will be another 675 Lot Deeds available. Raffle tickets will again be available for purchase. However in addition for those backers who do not yet own property, we are going to automatically enter you into both Raffles in Release 34!

    It's about to happen again. I bet more people go all in with gold this time seeing how people made a killing on this last raffle. I'll be interested to hear how much gold Chris says it sucks out of the economy.

    I have no idea how this raffle is more legit than people grinding gold and just buying lots. At one point city lots were 800,000gp. With the 3 mil that netted 79 lots you could only get 3 city and a town at the old prices.

    Not sure how they plan on having a successful next telethon when they are giving away the only thing that had major value.
     
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  13. Prince Guni

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    SotA = gold farming game

    In game rewards should be focused on other aspects/achievements/activities.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
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  14. Elwyn

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    They originally weren't planning on selling more unbundled lot deeds in the store once the original taxable deeds ran out, but the problem of empty POTs was just too hard to ignore.

    And lot deeds are the handles to the deco razor blades. It's rather hard to get deco fever when you have no lot to put them on. Deco is where the long-term income is.
     
  15. Prince Guni

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    I agree. But you can not create demand by just shoving things on people (almost) for free. In Second Life they tried this and it had the exact opposite effect: It badly hurt the perception of value for land and virtual goods in general and actually reduced demand. It also short-cut the achievement curve for players meaning that some players, once they achieved ownership of a big lot, got bored and left. Others would more easily give up their land again and would be less willing to pay taxes, as they perceived their land to be less valuable to hold on to (and to spend money/effort paying tax).

    I was, originally, supportive of the idea of a lot raffle. I actually still am, if done right. But it would have to be with far less lots in the raffle and not hundreds of deeds. Like in a real rife lottery, it should not be profitable to buy up all/most tickets of the lottery to get the prizes. The sum total value of all prizes should never exceed the sum total value / price of all lottery tickets sold.
     
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  16. Krissa Lox

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    As one of the five winners of a city lot deed, I can assure you they are not trading below the add-on store price. I'm personally keeping mine, but I had multiple private offers within hours of the posted results offering quite a lot if I were willing to part with it, and I assume the other winners received the same. If your friend posts that's she's considering offers, she'll probably be contacted too.

    But there's also a difference between being a trader and being a good trader. I made a living wage (albeit a humble one, but enough to be able to stay home with my kid when he was young) in UO and EQ2 so I know a few things about trading too. Personally I would never sell or hold land for a profit, because it's a functional part of the economy that provides more benefit in the hands of as many people as possible, not just a privileged few. If I had been willing to part with my deed, it would have gone to a player with a vision and a history of contributing to the community, and it would have been an even trade, not a for-proft trade to the highest bidder.

    I'm not trying to criticize you. I actually feel like you're a sincere, decent guy who might just be coming into conflict from carrying over inapplicable information from experience with other game systems. If I thought you were a bad guy, I wouldn't take the time to write at all. But I do think some of your business strategies could use some re-examination because I don't think they'll end up giving you the results you're hoping for. Just because merchanting isn't a play style that comes with a progress bar doesn't mean you can use outside resources to skip developing your character to be useful and trusted within the community.
     
  17. David Thompson

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    I picked up 2 of the city POT lots for below the price. (via trade for non-tax village lots) $1050 city lot vs $550 citizen pledge. Later ill pick up some more bundles to replace the village lots. As a POT owner i don't have the concerns non POT owners have and i think these 2 trades were beneficial to both parties. So from my perspective i have saved some money. $500, $1000 ? I'm not sure. I will definitely buy an additional bundle now, possibly 2. Obsidian bundles will be too hard for me to resist. In this case port will make more money off me than had i not made the trade (bundles and COTO). I have 2 city lots i would not have paid real money for (since i already bought 2 place anywhere city lots last year and they seemed too much even at $1050). I would like to think that the people with the tax free lots will be happy also. If i planned to play casually 1 village tax free lot would be ideal. You can place a lovely little obsidian tower on such lots. So you can say that the city lots you won are " not trading below the add-on store price" but i can assure you that other lots are selling below the add-on store price. One of my friends sold one for $450. I missed that one but did get a village lot from him for $100. I would like to think people will take me at my word but if not i can post pictures of my paypal account transaction and email you.
     
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  18. Krissa Lox

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    Some people might be selling for less for reasons of their own an, but the point I meant to make was the actual trade value hasn't really gone down.
     
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  19. Blake Blackstone

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  20. Prince Guni

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    I would wish you were right. But since the raffle ended I got multiple offers and also made some deals for less than half the value/price compared to before the raffle. Trade values/prices halved instantly, at least when it comes to PoT deeds. The impact on place anywhere land deeds might have been less. It is possible that the market recovers, but I fear it will take quite a while to absorb more than 600 land deeds and another 675 deeds have already been announced for this month.
     
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