Remove the ability to 'like' content on the forums.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jammaplaya, Oct 11, 2016.

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  1. jammaplaya

    jammaplaya Avatar

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    It's always a warm feeling that you get when somebody likes your content. That's pretty much the basis for why I don't think we should have the function.

    As some of you might know, I have experience moderating on Xenforo. In my experience, there's been a trend for some players to seemingly become addicted to the warm feeling of receiving likes. Or maybe it's just fameseeking. I can't say for certain either way.

    But I do feel confident that in some cases, boosting 'like' count becomes a goal, and so the content they post sometimes shows disregard for the community as a whole. For example, if they develop a list of followers who are bandwagoning trolls, who almost unobjectively click like on any of your content, in order to give the impression that the content represents the feelings of the majority. This may cause the person to post in a manner that doesn't entirely represent their true feelings, as their goal is simply to attain like count, and maybe they become restricted in the sense that they couldn't support a certain idea that they may agree with because it won't be popular with their followers.

    Perhaps it's not entirely necessary to remove the ability to like, but at the very least I would like to propose that we could remove the function, or remove the ability to view your total number of likes, even if it's only temporary to put this theory to the test.

    Hey, back when they had leaded gasoline, it took the efforts of one man who knew it was poisoning everyone with sometimes lethal doses of lead in their bloodstreams to finally get it changed, but not before it went on for entirely too long, something in the nature of 3-4 decades I believe.

    There are no changes that can't be unchanged. I can say with confidence that this is likely a small change that could have a big benefit, and I see no reason not to test the theory even if only to disprove it.

    I've only been a member of this community for a short time, in the nature of a couple months, so I'd like to hear from some veterans in the community if they feel the same way or not.
     
  2. Tahru

    Tahru Avatar

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    In a not so strange irony, I have argued against like count limits on other forums. Making people feel good is not a bad thing. I like people whether I agree with them or not. Its sometimes a sign of respect, sometimes a sign of agreement, sometimes a courtesy, sometimes a bookmark, but all times I hope those that receive it have a brighter day. What do you think @Time Lord ?
     
  3. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    I pretty much like most of the posts I read for two reasons:

    1) So that it will show up on the alerts when there is any update.
    2) Thanking the posters for not doing a low-grade s***posting regardless of whether I agree with their point of view or not.
     
  4. jammaplaya

    jammaplaya Avatar

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    Definitely, and you know, I'd still like the ability to like content. But the unfortunate thing is that sometimes people take a thing and ruin it for the rest of us, and I think this is one of those things. I definitely think it's what's best for the game to have accurate information and opinions at this stage in the games development.

    At the very least we could temporarily disable the system until r36 and then open it back up with a restriction that you can no longer see your total like count so we can get a little more data on this to see if the theory is correct.
     
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  5. moko

    moko Avatar

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    If you took away the likes people would just go on posting "+1", "agreed!" or similar while quoting the post they'd otherwise have liked and thus unnecessarily spamming up the thread...

    Technical solutions for social/interpersonal problems rarely - if ever - work.
     
  6. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    :eek:~The Evil Guardian of Ultima VII Has Arrived~:confused:
    How to Deal With a Control Freak: By "Psychology Today";
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/emotional-freedom/201010/how-deal-control-freak

    Just as in our game, as described by Lord British, Richard the Garriott, we should gain the ability to place good Karma on those we choose to do so.
    I am a living example of posting things others may see as offensive. The fact that someone like me, who has posted on controversial subjects of both kinds good and evil, I then have a following which includes them both, yet they may never agree on many things. Some of our top posting players have had great impact on our game and by pointing them out with our "likes", we encourage others to check out all that we have posted from our past. To remove the ability to "like" removes any motive to research what they were "liked for". By looking back at what subjects have been most important to that person with so many "likes", is then as easy as looking through the many Threads they created and their subject matters. Someone like me, has only around 7 pages of threads I have created and 108 followers, while some of our other members of high "like" counts, yet also high posting counts may have as many as 27 pages of subjects they've initiated as threads and 43 followers.
    Things as this provide contrast within our individual "wanting" to see if we wish to "follow them" or not, research them or not and befriend them, or not. This is why it's our custom here within "our forums", to welcome low posting members when we notice it may be their first post, or more concern ourselves with their threads and posts because we can recognize those by the information shown. Yet we can also recognize then, any disruptive posting member, who may be here only to troll. The troll in this regard, may even be offended by anyone "likeing" their posts, because they are a troll and a griefer upon others ideas and communication sharing.
    You are obviously a person who enjoys power and control of others. You have been magnetized to wishing police style actions be under your control for what you perceive as the betterment of the community, yet only through your judgments and control. You have a high opinion of yourself and value your own perceptions over those from others. What you clearly point out, is that you perceive others as having something that you did not approve of and now wish others to restrict themselves by giving up their freedom to do what they wish to do.
    Your wish for control through ability to post trolling remark or griefing without providing others a way of escape through knowing information as who likes who and what they like. Any removal of our personal ability to point things out, which "likes" are and have the ability to do would lead to a more troll and griefer friendly environment.... an toxic environment which you are wishing to create, by taking power away from the community, you perceive as unfriendly to "objectionable content", which then only breads an environment where more "Moderators" as you say you are, are then even more then needed.
    I know exactly who you are ;) and never for a moment think you can dupe through any deception. You are "The Guardian" of Ultima VII, wishing to spread your evil controls o_O of trolls, by such a suggestion....

    You will not get me back into a box Guardian ;)
    [​IMG]
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
  7. Frederick Glasgow

    Frederick Glasgow Avatar

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    The thing I find more funny than anything,is the people who pressed "Like" on your post. Talk about ironic. :D;):)
     
  8. jammaplaya

    jammaplaya Avatar

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    hehe @Time Lord . Well as @moko said, you would still have the ability to post and tell someone that you like the idea. So this isn't censorship at all, and thus, not controlling in nature. People will still have the ability to spread love, they just wouldn't have a number, or for some people, a 'score' staring them in the face influencing their decisions.

    This falls directly in line with the developers wishes to not allow players to see their virtue score, or a number attached to it. It's because they, too, don't want players to be influenced by a number causing them to do things they ordinarily wouldn't. We have to remember, this is their baby, and merely ours to enjoy. The irony is that anyone would be against having the developers 'painting' come out any way other than their own, or trying to 'control' their decision to do so. We should embrace developers decisions and merely offer feedback on it, but not try to influence their decision.

    Right?
    The more this becomes a project where people who for some reason feel entitled to having things their way start taking that power away from the developers, the more I fear developers will lose interest. My reason for posting this is for the good of SotA, not to control anything. Very much the opposite my good man.

    btw I did totally forget to read that thing you sent me. I apologize, just got a little swamped there with the US presidential debate and following up on it.
     
  9. Ashlynn [Pax]

    Ashlynn [Pax] Avatar

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    I wish there was a dislike button.
     
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  10. GraveDncer

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    Wow, way deep for a late read. :confused:;)

    I like the "like" because I like to support a good community and those that I agree with, if my like makes them feel good....Awesome. Never have I bothered to check out how many likes a poster has, I don't give a rats @$$.

    I say leave Mike err like alone he's not hurting anyone. :)
     
  11. Tahru

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    @jammaplaya I could care less about the scores next to our names. That is not really what likes are about and that seems to be your point as well. I would not be opposed to removing the like statistics and leaving the likes themselves. But, I don't think the developers that would even know how to do that have time to. They have been looking for a web developer to fix web site issues in the job postings if memory serves. Even then, this is a purchased forum, so I doubt the forum even has an option other than all or nothing.

    If those stats meant something, then I could make 5,453 horrible posts in a row before I would be considered just ok, That is ridiculous. It only takes one poorly worded post to tick people off on a bad day.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
  12. jammaplaya

    jammaplaya Avatar

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    I'd be the last person to fear such a thing. I'll defend the developers rights to enjoy the SotA experience and stand up for what's good for the game regardless if I take a hit in my personal popularity level.

    A true Knight of SotA.
     
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  13. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Any yet you are here asking that things get handled your way. Two times already. For the "betterment" of all. Of cours it's your opinion that i good for the game.
    A true white knight. Didn't meet a real one for quite some time.
    This might be interessting.

    That beeing said, i am rather indifferent if it comes to the like topic.
    I never liked the like options out there, i just got used to them at some point.
    I don't really care about the number of like me or somebody else have. So i guess i wouldn't miss them.
    But than again i don't want the times back where people posted 200 pages with +1. That dosen't really help keeping track of posts in a topic.
     
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  14. jammaplaya

    jammaplaya Avatar

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    It's extremely simple to do. Just download a .zip file and unzip it. Click an option. Done. The fact it exists may be proof that there are people who think my theory is correct.

    And yes, I know there's plenty of people who don't care about like count, but not everyone is as mature I'm would say. This is just a theory that I share with others and they have expressed that it was a success. I am also able to cite references if required. However I don't see why it needs to go that far, all I'm suggesting is that we test the theory for a limited time so that we can base our opinions on some actual data. Plain and simple I should think. This is, in fact, the exact right time to be putting theories and gathering data before the final product is released, is it not?

    I merely mentioned my experience with Xenforo so that I might be asked for the method to accomplish this, not to suggest that my opinion hold more weight than anyone elses. My opinion is as good as anyone else at this point, because we have no data.
     
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  15. majoria70

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    I never thought of it like having a high like # would influence someone. I don't really notice them that much. Very occasionally I'll look in case it might be a new person and I want to welcome them. It has been mentioned before to get rid of likes, but really I'd rather they spend most of the time fixing the game. The forums will be the forums, all over the place in expressing, but such is life, and then we wake up and we do it all over again ;)
     
  16. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Well, yes, it is.
    But the forum isn't part of the game and the dev team is pretty small and have already enough workload.
    I guess removing the like button wouldn't be the problem. But collecting the data might be. You tell me, never used XenoForo except as a user.
     
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  17. Toadster

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    Dislike may be to strong for some to handle. Maybe just a disagree button. Then also on those rare occasions a STFU button if we want to go the other way. Maybe adding those would cut down on all the quotes spouting about horrible idea with no suggestions for improvement or reasoning behind the comment.
     
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  18. jammaplaya

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    The problem with buttons is even more evident now given some of the responses in this thread.

    People are openly admitting that they are hitting the like button even when they dislike the content for various reasons. All of which are nice reasons, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    It's the same problem as would be caused by a disagree button. Disagreeing with something without giving a reason isn't helpful data. Player opinion shouldn't be swaying the direction of developers without reason.

    I'm not saying there isn't a good reason to have likes, there's plenty. But at this point in the game I think the cons outweigh the pros. Even afterwards, if the ability to like content is fueling the trolls, then it's still not worth it.

    Because:

    The forum is absolutely a part of the game. Especially because this is a community based game, so people definitely are judging the community based on the forums.

    I'll again stress that this is something that takes maybe 45 seconds of 'dev time' to accomplish. After a test run, people can give feedback on how it's working out. Their opinions will carry more weight after than they do now.

    At this point I'm more convinced than ever that this is something that should be tested out. I have a feeling that people will get used to it fairly quickly. I can't deny that part of the basis for me suggesting this is that it might work out as a censor-free tool for curbing at least a little trolling, but I think the strongest point in here is that it falls in line with the direction of developers not wanting us to see our level or virtue score.
     
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  19. Gemini

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    keep it positive, liking posts is a good thing and everyone can make up their own mind and disagree with a heavily liked post but it furthers a positive community and that is important!
     
  20. Time Lord

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    :oops:
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...ating-our-friends-rg-talked-about-this.10643/ (Time Lord o_O)...:confused:
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...ets-talk-about-stones-and-being-stoned.10388/ (Time Lord o_O)...:confused:
    :rolleyes: Please feel free to bring these controversial subjects up again :p... I do know what you are saying of fear of posting on possibly controversial subjects "if a player is looking for popularity contest through likes", yet there again, that's their own affair or fear to overcome, which having a like button or not isn't going to solve ;)

    Some of this content mentioned in the threads above "did" and possibly more will make it into our game o_O... :rolleyes:

    This is something "I Like", because not only has Lord British Richard of the Garriott said we need the ability to bestow good karma on another player, he did also say he desired the player's ability to bestow bad Karma on our fellow players.

    Dislike Button +1
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
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