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Balance Chain Lightning.

Discussion in 'Release 36 Feedback Forum' started by MrBlight, Nov 24, 2016.

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  1. Vallo Frostbane

    Vallo Frostbane Avatar

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    Everyone NEEDS to be a mage now for the resistances. Everyone should be a melee or archer now for consistent damage. It's hopefully not what was intended and it is gonna change.
     
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  2. Roycestein Kaelstrom

    Roycestein Kaelstrom Avatar

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    That's a good design question for telethon.
     
  3. Greyfox

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    Demanding nerfs is the problem. OP died in pvp. Get over it and learn from the death. Figure out counters instead of crying to the developers. If CL was so overpowered why didn't one of your three member gank squad have it traited?

    Nearly every MMO I've played with PVP starts out with effective forms of crowd control that require tactics to defeat. MMO gamers whine incessantly about having to use skill in combat and get crowd control nerfed. MMO PVP eventually boils down to who fields the larger gank squad.

    I don't do PVP in Shroud. When more organized and strategic goals are added into PVP, I'll join in. For now I'll leave the overland map gank squads to people like OP. I love Shroud of the Avatar, its my favorite game. I realize PVP is not the main focus of this game, so give the Developers time to work out the systems.

    Please stop whining and crying for nerfs. Get your resistances up, fight with skill and persistence.

    Please keep posting stories of three person gank squads dying to a single more skilled player. Makes me laugh and gives me hope this game will be different in PVP.
     
  4. GrayFog

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    Awww, gankers failed on 1 person, i'm sorry, NOT :p
     
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  5. Preachyr

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    Still not actually reading the threads before you chime in eh?

    You havnt played many MMO games with PVP then have you? Most decent MMO games that include PVP are careful to balance out crowd control effects because of the simple rule of game design that you shouldnt take control of the character away from the player any more than necessary.

    Oh, trust me, it shows.


    Again, showing that you havn't bothered to read anything here. Which gank squad are you referring to exactly? Have you read the OP? Let me remind you, the mage jumped someone (ganking?) and then OP jumped in on the mage. Second fight, OP and partner fought mage in open. Ganking? What 3 person gank squad are you talking about?

    Oh, right.. your not actually reading anything here and are not here to contribute anything other than "I like my win button dont take it away!!"

    Kinda like the multiple people in here who have said that resistances dont help and the stun is bypassing LOS and the range on the bounces needs tweaking and the cc debuff doesnt seem to be working.. and etc. etc... Productive stuff.. you know, opposite of what you are doing?

    Please stop whining and crying about stuff that no one is doing...


    Please keep answering threads without actually reading what's in them, makes me laugh and gives me something to respond to.
     
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  6. Preachyr

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    See below.. you obviously haven't read the posts here either, must be something with the grey names here...


     
  7. Toadster

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    Every build needs a counter, just like in the first few releases when archers were crit'ing 140% of the time. No one screamed for an archer nerf that I saw. But the one post I do remember was from archers complaining about shield wand mages. A direct result of someone adapting to and overcoming instead of whining for nerf.
     
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  8. MrBlight

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    Once again.
    If you actually read my posts.
    Where is the whining? Ive asked the same question repeatedly. Is there another build that requires a direct counter or its that dominent in the game right now? I have not seen one.
    ( I ALSO clearly state i dont run any real casting normally, so maybe there is spells that offset i jsut havnt seen, and i politely asked for other examples, as if its NOT alone, then its less of a balance issue )

    Do i want a nerf on CL ? Did i say that? I clearly stated im fine with the dmg, range etc, but that with SIMPLE TESTING, it shows theres no diminishing returns on the stun. Which doesnt really make sense does it?

    Not having diminisng returns on CC spells, is a balance issue, IS IT NOT? - This simple fact literally has nothing to do with the situation in which made me bring it up, and testing shows. ( a point you cant seem to get past ) - And actually as stated about the PVE, shows this isnt even about the PVP so much.
    If its so OP why arnt i running it? Because i like my character? I do fine in the overall picture? But im completly capable to quickly level the skill up, and see a balance issue with it by a simple duel with 40 in the skill? Its not rocket science..

    Hilarious that the people being difficult here keep stating they never pvp, or anything .. which is irrelavent to the actual point?

    And pretty much what preach said, just stop posting Grey if you cant read the threads before hand. I even wrote it slowly just for you.

    Toad. - I am not disagreeing ? Do you have any other examples that require a complete counter, or its an instant loss, as the air build? Im not saying its NOT counterable, im saying it seems to be the only thing ive run across that requires THAT much of a counter or your instantly screwed. Im genuinly asking, are there others? And if there isnt, shouldnt it be considered theres an issue?

    Incase it was blurry before your last post ?

    Would also like to see a reply to this, as he makes a good point about the resistances, that keeps getting glossed over. I wouldnt even mind seeing a dmg increase to it, in exchange for a stun diminsih per use or per bounce ? -
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2016
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  9. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

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    oh okay, didnt get it right - sorry not my motherlanguage
     
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  10. Nox Haven

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    Here is something interesting regarding Chain Lightning:

    Grab 2 buddies to PvP each other. Place them in the center of the massive Duke's Arena Basement. Then run your self to the absolute furthest spot from them. Then go to one of those hallway stairs that even gets your further away from them so you are not even in the Arena anymore nor on the same level. Go into Hiding or Move Silently. Tell your friends to start their PvP. Not only will it pull you out of stealth but it will stun you and damage you as if you were standing right next to them. Not good enough for you yet? Then go and lock yourself in a completely separate room on the second floor; And guess what? it STILL will not protect you from getting perma stunned/zapped.

    So, we have a single spell here that requires a counter for the stun (i.e. Hard Headed if you are lucky enough to be using heavy armor) and a counter for the lightning damage ( i.e. Well Grounded).

    Both of which happen to be innate skills and take 3 times the amount of experience each to increase. This is the approximate mathematical equivalent XP of GMing 6 skills that can only be trained quicker during damage received in combat to counteract one single GM spell that can be trained hitting a dummy.

    And say you somehow managed to GM both those skills after a ridiculous amount of time having your buddy and his/her air elemental spamming you with Air tree spells, it still is no where near a guaranteed counter.

    All this needs to be addressed before the synchronized auto stealth detection/stun/damage/spamming.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
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  11. lildoc

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    The damage and stun can be countered. Not by just any skill tree but that imho is how it should be. The only thing that needs fixed is hitting out of LOS.

    FYI, citing the reality of how lightning works on a fantasy game with magic is pretty silly. Not to mention good gameplay trumps science in this situation.

    People that lose fights will often cry foul on pvp situations, yes you may have to make choices to counter a situation. Not adapting is your problem, not everyone else's. That said there are issues that need fixed, but as previously stated the line of sight is the only true flaw.
     
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  12. Toadster

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    Not of the top of my head, I would say it is probably the most powerful 1vmulti spells out there. I really would like to see how powerful it is when people have resistance to it. If right now no one has any thoughts to put skill points in to resist it and you make changes then when people finally do have resistance to it built up, it will be worthless. But hipefully the Through walls bug can be fixed but I like the rest of it.
     
  13. Preachyr

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    A few people have already spoken up throughout this thread saying that they have resist and it makes little difference.
     
  14. Toadster

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    how much resist? And what type?
     
  15. MrBlight

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    Also it was noted the resist only effects the dmg. Not the stun chance or duration.
     
  16. uhop

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    FWIW, I am usually running in plate, my Hard Headed is at modest 59, and I can reliably cast Knight's Grace, yet it didn't help me any against puny fauns, which managed to froze me solid (filed as a bug, you can find references at the beginning of this thread). I suspect it'll be no much help against CL either.
     
  17. Toadster

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    Yeah all of this is noted by players making assumptions on one line of text added to a skill tree description. Based A Fight with a player that probably(yet another assumption) had over 100 Air attunement. Has it actually been tried at comparable levels with comparable resist?
     
  18. lildoc

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    I have hard headed at 70 and stand your ground at 70 as well as well grounded at 63 with about 70 air warding on gear. Im about adv level 70 and tested agadir an air mage also about 72ish. I finished each fight with over 400 health left.
     
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  19. MrBlight

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    I wish someone could come in here and give me better numbers one way or another. But running about 40ish in the skill no attunement or passive, Vs someone with WG up to about 50 ish, and resist chest, looks like 0 duration change in the stun over someone with no WG skill. So i hold to my point untill proven otherwise that im not seeing a change in the duration, only a change in the dmg (which is irrelivant)

    Details? How long is the stun duration when he hits you, does he cast it, then lightning, to out do your stun break? Was he cycling between the 2 with 5 copies of each in deck?
    The resist shuts down the damage im sure, but its the no effect to stun duration from the resist skills that im now curious about. Because then he can easily perma lock you, by using lighting / CL. .as you dont have 10 copies of stun break. ( assuming i am right and the resist doesnt play part in the duration ) ( but as i showed above, i can only test low level my self )
     
  20. Andartianna

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    Something that also might work with cooldowns is to have a skill similar to Knight's Grace in Heavy Armor skills in the Light Armor skill tree and or make purify/purify blast usable while stunned. You will still be stun-able but now have a way to remove them.
     
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