Where is the love for PVE players?

Encouraging a different style of play for me goes against the original premise of the game which said "Whohooo, Selective Multiplayer! Play the way you want!". Now it says: "Better play in MMO mode, Selective Multiplayer was a bad idea"...

Exactly. What I get from those changes is: "Single player is the devil! There should never have been single player games!"

 

Really?

Could i not just reverse your statement and say the exact same thing? Why would i play MMO and have to share things! Selective multiplayer? play the way you want?! But I HAVE to play single player to get a chance at any of the spawns! What a lie! MMO is the devil! This never should have been a MMO game!

Sorry let me rephrase from the start.
Its balancing a style of play. Not encouraging one or the other. Its compensating the loss you would normally take for playing that way. Which is exactly what my post said.

 

Considering how dead the PvP subforum is (which reflects how many active PvP players we have) I believe Port's stance on this is to take measures to bring the PvP population back to a healthy level. When a certain sector of the population is sick or dwindling then the emphasis is on bringing this part to a healthy status *first*.

There are only 2 conditions I can think of that makes this point moot.

1. PvP players already are on par or outnumber PvE players so the +XP measure isn't necessary
2. Port believes that the acceptable number of PvP players is zero.

Neither of which, I think we all agree , is true.

 

Then why not implement a system like in Guild Wars 2 in which every player can mine a node until it is depleted for him only? Instead players are now lured into MMO mode with bonuses etc.

 

I feel like that question has been addressed before, as im sure you have said that exact thing somewhere else no? Or do i have to go dig it up.
And Lured.. into MMO ... with bonuses..

So.. by balancing it, its a lure? And by ignoring my post about how it basically evens things out... ?

I dont know why they dont do the nodes another way ? But thats not really what the issue is about. If they feel like re doing the game, then yea theres probably better ways to go about it.
Morrowind had custom spells. Why not implement a system like that? DAOC had arena based keep takes. Why not implement a system like that? Skyrim had better music. Why not put in a better system?

But the topic was the * Bonuse * and how you feel its a Penalty to single players.

So i say again. Its not really a bonuse. Its a balancing.
Its not a Penalty to single player, as it doesnt effect you in anyway. It was to give people who are in Friends Only mode 24/7 a possible balance to dealing with more people running around. It was to bring some life into a dead part of the game ( Which is PVP ) . Which IMO ( and clearly others ) as important to us, as single player is to you. And its clearly working, as the people who actually flagged are having a blast. Or people dont have interest in it, and it doesnt effect them in the least.

 

The penalty comes into play for those who want to switch modes. I wrote it elswhere but what about those who want to play in SPO for some time to do some quests alone and then they come back to OPO mode to do some PvP? They do have a penalty because they chose to play in SPO for some time whereas those who chose to play in OPO all of the time being flagged for PvP got more EXP and now are better. So just because I wanted to use the Selective Multiplayer feature and play alone for some time gives me a disadvantage and makes me think I did something wrong...

 

I understand incentivizing MPO, and PVP. But combining the two is a bad plan. A PVP incentive should not be tied to PVE play. That creates a penalty to PVE players in the same content.

Have a MPO bonus for everyone.

Then, have a PVP bonus that is only related to PVP actions.

 

Yeah - people that are flagged for PVP should only get the bonus if they're in an open PVP environment. Just because being flagged for PVP puts you in an open PVP environment regardless of where you are shouldn't mean.... oh wait.... never mind.

#PVP

 

And you got explained elsewhere.
Im on mobile so ill actually take time to respond nicely to you in better detail later.
But essentially.

If you in spo. World is your oyster. You level at the same pace as anyone else ( and faster to a mmo player who competes for space ).

Now if you compare my skill gain in grinding to yours, when in flagged.
Lets say i get 1000 per mob, your getting 750.
When im scrappig and dieing, competing for spawn and nodes, pvping in between pve ing. your continuing to level up normally.
Im willing to bet its relativly close to the same amount of exp. Or at least thats the goal of them experimenting at 25%.

Your not being slowed in anyway by not playing this mode. I am. Hense balancing for time vs time value.

If your arugument is that i put too much time in, and can GET more an hour then you, then lol.

That whole time u were in spo mode.. you were getting 100% exp. no competition.
In no way does wanting to play both put you behind someone who doesnt. Not for time vs value.

If you wanted to make a real argument here. you would try to find the balance between average pvp players in mmo and spo gridning same stuff with equal skill and time and helping them find a good fair %. is 25% high? maybe. i dunno. since ive been playing in it honestly i find im brraking even. espetially since sometimes i cant win an area and cant farm the best gains. so now im getting 750 flagged while scrapping to you 750. whose making more?

 

I agree with the OP. Something feels off with this experiment.

I'm a little dismayed that+25% XP is used as a game design to encourage PVP while other games have realm wars, arena systems, etc. It makes SOTA's PVP look too obviously feature deprived.

But more than that, I keep wondering why we are heading down this path instead of hearing about the lore of SOTA and how it compels Avatars to PVP within it?

-- Why are avatars measured on virtue on one hand paid more XP to kill otherwise?

-- What is so compelling in SOTA lore that an Avatar would forego a path to virtue to do that?

-- Why open PVP only in the shardfall areas? Resources? Avatars will kill over resources?

After a few years of game design, is there something that can be shared on this? Very little is found on the web site about SOTAs central lore other than this being an LB game. I'm looking at that wondering what the central ideas is there that is being connected to PVP game design? Is there something more on the drawing board that the team can share with us?

I don't have any issues with PVP. I PVP in other games. I just want to feel the reason to do it is more immersive -- and more fun -- than signing up to level my character faster. Taking +25% XP to feel better about not being able to answer these questions above after a few years of hanging out here makes me think about them all the more. These are fair questions about what the game is meant to be, beyond just whacking people.

 

Perfect example. Groups are starting to run control points again. But they are doing MP PVP due to the xp bonus. Not because they have desire to encounter people in PVP combat, but want the 25% bonus.

What happens to folks with no interest in PVP, they get left out.


PVE content should not contain a PVP incentive, period. It encourages ganking behavior, and penalizes PVE players.

Incentivize PVP by modifications to results from PVP play.
> reduce durability loss from PVP combat
> reduce XP loss from PVP death
> increase XP award from PVP kills
> create PVP only zones with objectives that give XP, flag capture, control point (with no NPC critters), etc. There are 100's of games out there with ideas on play concepts that are tried and true.


Rewards for killing a NPC critter should not change because of PVP status.

 

I have quit games that forced pvp on people because of incentives. If this keeps up you will loose a LOT of the pve community.

 

I dont understand this you did nothing wrong, you just chose to play single player mode and not get the 25% exp boost. Thats a choice not a penalty. Lack of a bonus is in no way a penalty, i could see your complaint if it said players in single player mode get -10% exp now that is a penalty. In addition if you dont PvP, dont flag, it might be the better option. I would think it would almost be a wash depending on your skill level. If you are not dying as much not flagged, and not losing gold to reclaim stuff you may end up on par with the 25% or ahead. Also my experience with the pvp community going on 20 years is if you earn their respect your less likely to get ganked. Personally as a PvPer and i havent done alot in SOTA because its current states is no fun to me, if theres an individual flagged that i know is going to make a big deal out of dying thats the person i gun for everytime, that and "known enemies". Now if i kill someone and they come back and continue on with their gaming without whining and complaining chances are im going to leave them alone. Especially if they keep coming back, might even make a friend out of the whole deal.

 

The title of this thread reminds me of a convo I overheard between my sister and my nephew. He pointed out that we have Mother's Day, Father's Day, and even Grandparent's Day and wondered when they would invent Kid's Day. She responded that every day was Kid's Day.

That's sorta how I feel about the question of when pve will get some love as compared to pvp.

 

one thing other games have learned you should NEVER get rewards for pve while pvp flagged. @thedevs are you listening do you even care?

 

No other responses needed...just perfect.

 

So you say that the quests are really good with all of the choices and great, visible and lasting consequences to our actions?

 

Not at all. I am saying that pve is worked on every day so it seems a bit one sided to begrudge an occassional pass at improving pvp.

Are you saying pvp should not be worked on until pve is perfect?

 

Once you reach a point where you need to give your players incentives in order to play a certain way, your game has serious design issues.

 

I dont think they have just gotten to this point, this has been the point forever.... they are just trying to change it and i dont blame them. I wish port alot of luck in reviving the community, specifically the PvP community. Like it or not PvPers are some of the most committed player base you can get. If you build it right they will come and in droves.