Release of Shroud of the Avatar postponed again

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lord_Darkmoon, Dec 4, 2016.

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  1. meadmoon

    meadmoon Avatar

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    We don't have time either. That's why other people jump in and do what we have to do to get the job done. It's called passion for your customer and commitment to customer satisfaction. I know both are not historically a high priority for game developers, but they should be.

    Try and stick with the central point, ok? It's an example. I doesn't matter if it's Ruby, C, or object-oriented "f*ck-wit" code. The point is you can and should repurpose people in small companies to help out wherever they can. I'm really not sure what the rest of that nonsensical paragraph was designed to relay -- maybe that you can regurgitate words like JIRA, codebase or you're trying to convince me you know something about sorting algorithms. *shrug*

    ??? Pointless and [no offense intended] borderline fanboy "justify at all costs" nonsense. At least that's how it comes off. Let's move on.

    For once we agree. Another wipe should already be in the works, if Port is smart and really cares about the entire existing and future player base.
     
  2. Canterbury

    Canterbury Avatar

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    Luckily there's quite a few deep pockets that have kept it chugging along, for the use of a larger playerbase, over that time. I just wonder how long that support can last, even from the really committed types?
     
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  3. Umuri

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    Next time it's more polite just to say you don't understand, than try to insult the writer and try to downplay their point.

    My point was coding is complex, just like graphic art is complex. There's a reason people get paid 100k+ to do some of these jobs.
    Anyone can learn the basics, but they won't be able to do what a trained professional who has spent years can do.
    You can teach someone the basics of ai programming in a month, sure, if you really use that month, but they will -not- put out great AI. They may get lucky and have an epiphany that puts out a smart ai, but they won't have the knowledge required to implement it efficiently.

    I argue it comes off that way only if you don't attempt to read and understand it and treat everything as "blah blah blah".

    You don't just get to write off most of someone's argument and say "lets move on". My point stands uncontested. Your wish that all jobs are interchangable is provably false.

    It sounds to me like you've never touched a complex codebase with a mixed inheritance structure before, honestly, and you're false trying to equviocate a simple level of programming with a complex one due to that lack of experience. Nothing wrong with that, but it'd be like someone telling a pharmacological chemist "Just hire more people, any freshman who passed their organic chem class should be able to help you out, it's the same thing".

    For every one unique situation where throwing more people at a coding problem, especially untrained ones, helps, there's dozens and hundreds where it doesn't.

    Should portalarium use talent where talent is reliably skilled enouh to work outside their job?
    Sure, I agree entirely.
    However I think you vastly underestimate exactly how much background is needed to jump into a complex codebase and make useful changes that don't also make more work for others to clean up after you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
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  4. Jaanelle DeJure

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    It may be the case that they anticipated growing the team faster than they did. Even though they had the money going into persistence, several more months passed before I noticed any new hires. Just speculating...
     
  5. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Despite what the haters say (not going to read all the pages here) the game is shaping up quite good at the moment.
    Six more months seem about right.
    Sounds good to me.
    Though I would have liked to see an announcement from @DarkStarr or LB about it than from steam but oh well.
     
  6. LoneStranger

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    Weren't those new hires replacements, not additions?
     
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  7. Myrcello

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  8. Ristra

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  9. GrayFog

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    Sorry, but then they suck, i am an programmer since over 2 decades, and i don't need 2 years to fully figure something out lol...

    No matter how complex your system is, i will be fully in your stuff within 1 - 3 month.
     
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  10. GrayFog

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    If the code is a shitpile it can be difficult indeed, but still, 6 month or even years is just LOL and WTF...
     
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  11. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    Nice! How many games have you released in the past 20 years, would you mind showing us some?
     
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  12. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    You would be surprised.
    At some point in the beginning EvE lost all of it core programmers.
    The code was such a mess that the replacements really needed years to sort it out and set it straight.
     
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  13. GrayFog

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    I am not an game dev. Software dev/engineer fits it better.
    And no, i can't show you any software since what we use is "intern" only.
     
  14. GrayFog

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    I must have missed that, i played EVE for quite a long time, wierd.
    But if they lost really ALL their core programmers, i can understand why it took em that long.

    However, here in SotA we don't have such an situation.
     
  15. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

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    True.
    Just wanted to point out that there are situation where this IS possible ^^
     
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  16. syxs

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    When was this as I played EvE back in beta and never had heard of developers leaving or getting fired "early" on. They had dev abusing internal systems and have done some re-writes due to expanding nature of the game but as far as I'm aware they never loss their core programmers.
     
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  17. GrayFog

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    Oh wait, thought that doesn't count as a game at all and not even close to the depth and complexity of SotA, i played arround a bit with NWN2 a while back and coded an player housing system plugin with C#.

    http://www.nexusmods.com/neverwinter2/mods/883/?

    :p ok ok i know, that's just kiddie stuff.

    But i also played arround with Unity, C# and Photon in some of my free time, it's amazing what tools you have available there already.

    Other than that, give me any programming language, and i mean really any, i will dig through your stuff and figure it out in an very fast timeframe.
     
  18. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Bah no idea when exactly.
    I started to play EvE on year after release. So it was some time after that.
    I can even remember the forum posts about it.
    PPL wanted to have nice things but couldn't get them because of that.
     
  19. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    Nice plugin. I would probably get extra hours playing the game by being able to have housing system.

    SotA codebase doesn't seem to be that clusterfook as some may believe. I notice their two new devs from tech Dept only took a few days to get brought up to speed with the code base before they jump into actual tasks. So the challenge here isn't much about reverse engineering on what have been done.

    The tough part is to keep up with the development sprints and changes that are constantly brought up by the team leadership with the current tech available and also keeping up the morale while working closely with many honorary folks who are very experienced armchair project managers and game designers.
     
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  20. mercster

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    Good news.
     
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