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Recipe Discoverability Feedback

Discussion in 'Release 37 Feedback Forum' started by Koldar, Dec 21, 2016.

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  1. Koldar

    Koldar Avatar

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    @DarkStarr, here are my 2 gold crowns on this topic: I think you've gone a little overboard on restricting recipe discoverability.

    I skipped crafting last release because of this experimental feature and the experimental feature punishing single players. I decided to log in this release and try crafting again and see how some of the recipes were effected. Every unknown recipe I have tried crafting (found at both sotacrafting.wiki and sotacraft.com) have failed to let me discover them. It takes a long time to gather resources and gold for purchasing mats. Now, having to purchase recipes is another drain. I realize you guys are trying to balance the economy...but as a casual player...this change keeps my avatar in poverty. It feel like I am forced to choose between taking on a second job or buying gold. Which is just no fun.
     
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  2. TarrNokk

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    Each recipe costs 250gp. If you go adventuring or let's say "farming gold", you can make (depending on your adventurer level) so much gold in only 1 hour to buy 5 recipes or more.
     
  3. Kaffien

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    I miss the ability to discover new recipes. I don't like this whole forced buying recipes thing.
     
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  4. Koldar

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    I suppose if I was able to net 1250 gold per hour, I wouldn't care as much. But the truth is, if I'm lucky and have a really good haul, I gross 500 gold per hour. How are you about to earn that much?

    After a week of grinding gold, I usually need to repair both weapons (dual wielding). So, after a week, if I visit the Oracle each day as well as grind gold, I'm looking at netting around 5k. One might say that's plenty of gold. If I buy one decoration half is gone right away. What about reagents? What about actually having something to contribute to the player-driven economy? That will never happen with the trickle I earn. After 5 months of persistence, I still can only afford to wear my starter gear. I'll likely never upgrade at this rate.

    Is this supposed to be fun for casual players at some point or should I just throw in the towel and sell off?
     
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  5. brhanson2

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    I tend to agree, I liked the discoverability aspect.

    One thing that does need repair (IMHO) is the various versions of the same recipe. If I know how to make a Binding I should be able to discover all flavors of that binding. I shouldnt have to go buy 3 or 4 recipes for a functional item I already know how to make.
     
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  6. Koldar

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    That's something else I agree with. If I learn how to create something with bronze, changing to white iron is as simple as switching one ingredient. It really shouldn't take an additional recipe.
     
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  7. Knightguy

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    They didn't like the fact you could go to a website, get the recipe, and craft anything. The patch does have some training associated, meaning some skills can be taught to you by other players so if you can find a guild member to train you or a friend then you can save on some of the costs.
    I don't like the change, and those that got in before it have a big advantage over everyone else, but it is what it is at this point and I don't see them rolling back on the issue. My 2 cents, if they were going to do such a big crafting change they should of wiped everyone's recipe books to level the playing field.
     
  8. Baratan

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    They want cost associated with learning recipes. Cool. But try something different than 250 for everything. Start some at 20.
     
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  9. Deathadder

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    I agree some basic recipes should be cheaper, tier the recipes.
     
  10. Preachyr

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    Agree with everything here.

    The idea of making some items need a recipe is fine. For example rare items, rare food recipes, high end gear, those kinds of things make sense for this system. You need to find a legendary smith who is the only one in the region who has learned the secret of making the uber sword of uberness. Maybe he sells it or maybe he sends you on a quest to earn it. Maybe some recipes can only be found as drops from certain types of high end mobs. Thats fine, I could totally get behind that.

    But needing to go and buy almost every frickin basic recipe and for every variation of materials for each one is just ridiculous. Things like bindings, ingots, handles, any of the weapon blades that use molds... Come on, those should still be discoverable.

    Port doesnt want us going to 3rd party sites to figure out all the recipes?? Well now instead we are just having friends or guildies teach each other all the teachable ones and going to sites outside the game to figure out where the closest vendor is that sells the remaining ones.

    Yeah, big improvement
     
  11. Knightguy

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    Can you point me to said site, can be a tad annoying for me to try to hunt them down blind in game.
     
  12. Preachyr

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    Right now I just look in these forums in the crafting section, if I don't find it already listed there I just make a post asking and usually someone knows where it is.

    I don't imagine it will be long before sites like sotacraft have the locations of recipes listed, and even on our site we should have it up in the wiki eventually.
     
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  13. Lars vonDrachental

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    Well honestly most people did not "discover" the recipes as taking a look at a website is not discovering something. :p
    But as it seems to be important that not everyone can do everything (economy) the devs had to change this system and that way I'm fine with this change.

    Actually it is not that easy. In reality adding another material you would change many aspects like melting points or take a look on how recalcitrant a material is and that way when and how often you are able to slam your hammer on your product without destroying it.
    At least I think that is a possible reason why they currently do not allow cross references between one kind of product to another kind of product only with a different material….but maybe I’m wrong and this is simply because they do not had the time to implement some cross references code.

    The point of prices is reasonable that they should change that. Easy recipes should be cheaper and more difficult recipes should be more expensive.

    Did you ever got the idea to buy these from other avatars? Well…I mean…you know…I’m quite sure there will be some selling stuff you need for below 1000000 gold a piece and if not maybe some should start with. ;)
     
  14. TarrNokk

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    Getting gold has a simple answer: Kill Kill Kill. Go in zones which fit to your level and kill skeletons. Skeletons drop a weapon, gold, corpse wax and magic reagents. Sell that stuff when you are loaded and return. Dependent on your level the income increases. If I want the max gold per hour I can do about 7000gp/hour. While I go to zones to get XP and best money I earn about 4000gp/h.
     
  15. Merlota

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    I hit overloaded at 800-1k worth of crap weapons. Are we back to farming longbows only? Your method is correct but the numbers are off.
     
  16. Technowitch

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    Look for the Tactics skill tree. Increase your base health, and then strength, then the ability known as Heavy Lifter. If you work on increasing the latter two of those, you can eventually increase your carry weight to multiple hundreds of pounds. 'Strength of the Earth' in the Earth magic tree is also useful.

    Yeah, early on one will be making frequent trips back to the NPC vendor.

    Anyway, about recipes, I agree with most here: Simple ones ought to be discoverable, as well as purchasable. It shouldn't take a recipe to make a sword blade where the only variable is how many ingots are going into the mold you had to buy anyway. Some ought to cover multiple types, but could be made more expensive. For example, if I know how to prepare one type of bear head trophy and the only variable is which Pristine X-type bear head goes into it, I shouldn't have to buy a separate recipe for each one. Perhaps it's fair though to make me buy a separate recipe for wolf heads. Or for fish (which still work entirely differently than the bears and wolves).

    It'd be better, too, if the recipes were priced according to difficulty and level. I had to buy two recipes to make the 4-story Greenhouse Rowhouse -- the house itself, plus glass panes which I hadn't had before. Glass panes maybe could be more expensive than the simplest stuff. But the house? Given I had to be GM Carpentry to make it, 250g is way too cheap. However, the simplest stuff -- like everything involved with making arrows -- ought to be way cheaper than it is. I'm talking like a couple gold at most to learn to make arrow heads.
     
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  17. TarrNokk

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    I am loaded at 440. That are about 70-80 items (heavy warhammers, 2H longswords, lesser wands, lesser staffs ~400 corpse wax)
     
  18. Numa

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    Most of the avatars posting these numbers are at level 50,60,80 and up. The experience is very different for beginning or even level 15- 25 players.
     
  19. kaeshiva

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    I really hate this change to discoverability.
    Its just kind of annoying, when for example you know that it takes 1 wolf carcass and a cleaver to cut up a wolf, but you have to go buy a recipe to cut up a crocodile carcass which means traipsing across the world.
    Some stuff should be intuitive.
    I don't understand why this change was needed, discovery was one of the neatest aspects of the crafting for me, and crafters really didn't need another cash sink, its already a black hole for money.
     
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  20. Kliirkast

    Kliirkast Localization Team

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    A good summary of the general feeling, imho.

    J from B
     
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