Soltown Vendors are dropping the ball

so it can end up sort of like Soltown, and have people spamming 24/7 with their deals on gold, power leveling, and items a newbie cant buy?

 

And here I thought I was being so gentle about it.

I apologize to anyone that had their feelings hurt. I generally like everyone, and many of the people I mentioned. They all happened to be in the line of fire due to their location.

I'm not the only one that feels this way, though, "Soltown is a disgrace to the community," and "When I took a look at the soltown vendors, I felt a tad angry." were mentioned.

And perhaps they just forgot that they priced their buy orders at 1/3 market value (that's been up since wood was 75,) and weren't trying to take advantage of new players after all. I may never know.

The weight of attracting new players doesn't fall on us at all. However the early placers nailed down Soltown knowing it was the new player area, so the weight of making it a good new player place does actually fall on them. I've been waiting for something good to happen there for months, and it's making zero progress.

I've seen other players switch out of locations they knew they weren't doing justice to, for the good of the game. I would suggest that those who don't want to figure out how to sell to new players might consider alternate locations. It will probably be more lucrative for them anyway.

Another, maybe better way to put this is "Know thy market."

 

Your vendor was one I was actually looking at trying to figure out which side you fall on. I guess I came down with you in the middle, as I didn't know what to say specifically. I believe you are the one with those rusty swords, which means you are the only one in the area with any weapons that are affordable.

Please elaborate on what you mean by starter level weapons and armor. What was your method, buy from NPC and resell, or from Ardoris, or crafting?

I don't think you should be subsidizing by selling at a loss. I keep a pretty good spreadsheet going so I can price 10% over my crafting costs. As I said above, a longsword costs 486g to make. If you sold it at around 550, you are making a bit of a profit, and it's not outlandish for a new player to buy. It will take them some time, but not a terrible amount.

Let me know if you ever decide to leave that spot, I'll try my hand at it. Money where my mouth is, so to speak.

 

I don't think it's really possible to craft and sell low end items for a profit right now. Maybe there are a few things that would make you a tiny bit for your time, but certainly nothing that would be more profitable than just killing or gathering. Yeah, it would be nice if starting towns were friendly environments for new players, but I wouldn't call anyone out for not setting up a charity on their own dime to help make that happen.

 

Just add Survival into the Game description.

Problem solved.


No one expects to have a weapon at start then. Any weapon. Grin

 

I started in Soltown not that long ago and I will agree it's a little tough to equip yourself and get proper training.
I feel that if there were NPC weapons and armor vendors, things would have gone a lot more smoothly.
Also, there are only the bow and crafting trainer. I think the both trainers should hint that there are more trainers near by in the town of Ardoris, located SW.
There is the welcome center right next door that I found a big help. I was able to experiment with different weapon types besides the bow in short order.

 

Who are you, that you take the right to taunt other players for their offers in their vendors???
Calm down and take care of your own business.
Besides - while you move out of Solace Bridge you can loot many dead corpses for gold and rusty weapons. Thats the way I started and I had no need to buy anything before I had a few more coins. Players have to be on their own and do not need to get pampered all the way.

 

Starter level weapons and armor are NPC sold items or looted weapons and armor. They have the qualities of the weapons/armor but no material benefits that crafted items would have. I would never buy and resell NPC items because I always sell below their prices so I would always lose money. I loot weapons and armor from dungeons and resell them. The requirement is that the durability (both primary and secondary) must be at max so the player gets full usage before they decay. So I never sell rusty swords I get from skeletons because they don't have hardly any durability left.

BTW, The NPC merchant Martin has a lot of weapons and armor that new players can buy at pretty low prices. All of the starter gear I sell is always priced much lower than Martin's prices. For example, Martin sells Long Bows for 300g and I sell them for 120g. Martin sells Triangle shields for 120g and I sell them for 69g. Martin sells the chainmail chest for 240g and I sell a plate chest for 89g.

Why do I sell so cheap? I assume a new player isn't going to have much gold and will probably be looking for weapons/armor under 100g and absolutely not over 200g. Also, I know these items are priced right because they do sell within a few days of listing.

I have backed off on selling starter gear for the reason in my previous post and because rifthikers "cheap stuff" vendor was selling starter gear even cheaper. Most items were between 5-40 gold. No ill will on my part but I just can't compete with that. But, I'm looking at rifthikers vendor right now and there is almost nothing on it so I don't know what's going on. Either he is selling out all the time or players are buying his stock out. He specifically has a note on the vendor asking people not to buy him out... in other words, leave the cheap stuff for new players. Or, he gave up trying to keep the vendor stocked or is on vacation. I think Spoon is managing that vendor.

I'm sorry but 550g might be a bit much for a new player. I could try it but I'm skeptical. I'm actually not a blacksmith but a tailor who makes cloth and leather armor. I've not been selling cloth/leather armor because I don't want to undercut Ida's vendor across the street from me.

I think we could make a decent profit selling starter gear with low margins if we could move 1000 items a day. That would require a higher vendor item capacity and A LOT more new players.

 

@monkeysmack Thanks for the explanation. I don't want to encourage anyone to price below cost, although it happens all the time, particularly with crafting. It's one reason our economy is a total whack job.

I appreciate you taking the effort to get the new players going, though. I obviously think it's pretty important for all of us.

The guy I ran into had 400 gold after an hour, so that's not too far from being able to buy a crafted no frills sword, at a price that makes you a bit of money and him as well.

Take my furniture as an example. It's barely moving at cost +10%, nothing really is right now. But it does move. I don't think anyone except maybe Bamboozle gets enough turnover at the moment to be shooting off fireworks from profits. I don't even think it's really that important. "Don't lose money" as Warren Buffet says. Also, lay the groundwork for a successful launch.

Your long bows are underpriced, they cost over 1300 to make. That may be why you are getting bought out regularly, then they are probably winding up on the public vendor in Ardoris. It is what it is, archery is expensive. I would suggest trying to sell at cost plus 10%, around 1499. That may sound crazy, but it's what it's costing you. The new player who arrived here has a bow, which is why she is in Soltown. She won't need that long bow until she's made some money or trips to the Oracle.

So imagine that the new player comes in, finds your vendor. On it are Iron Longswords for 549 gold, maple long bows for 1499, teleport scrolls for cost +10%, whatever that is, or maybe these from the NPC vendor +10%, if that's cheaper. They note that in their head because it's the cheapest they've seen, unless Riftwalkers haven't had all their cheap ones bought out. If they need a sword, they are probably pretty close to getting it already, particularly if they know to go to the Oracle (put directions in your vendor?) I forgot who said in Discord, but he's going to start listing small stacks of crafting mats so new players can work without having to buy 100 pieces.

Now they are actually finding things they need in Soltown, because no merchant is going to come through and raid your stock. They come back for the first little bit instead of being forced to move to Ardoris. You make more money, they have a smoother experience doing quests.

Now, I don't think many of us are making money with vendors yet, especially when paying taxes, so don't hold your breath on that. And thanks for looking out for the little guy.

 

Survival of the Avatar. Would solve the PvP debate too. You're hired.

 

I started the game a few months ago and still have the tinge of noobness clinging to my cloak. So I can still feel what it was like as a green horned noob running around Soltown in rags, weilding a rusty sword.

I remember running around Soltown looking at the how stuff was being sold on vendors and thinking, "these guys are taking the piss". As a noob I made sure to remember the players who were selling in a price gouging way and to not bother with their vendors.

Thus branding exists in the game as in real life, so those advertising "Cheap recall scrolls" at 200g a pop are not thought of as vendors I should bother with. But the dudes that sell the stuff I need at reasonable prices, I remember those for the rest of my days.

If you have a vendor at Soltown, it is your chance to make a good impression. If you price in a way that is simply "pulling my plonker," then it is unlikely I shall bother with your vendors further on in the game.

Of course this could instantly change if Port @DarkStarr @Berek decided to put a public vendor in Soltown.

I do find it frustrating that the start point of the game is a restricted marketplace and does not allow the laws of supply and demand to exist.

As some players have noted, they do not make gold off of new players, so if the devs allowed lowever level players to sell their stuff to newer players the economy would reflect real prices more readily in the first point of contact in the game,

 

I have to agree with the sentiment of this thread. I remember Ida's shop back before persistence being the ONLY place that sold anything remotely affordable that my newb self could possibly want. Was pleased to find it again come persistence in the same place. I've run around Soltown and there are a few good ones - the Rifthiker's guidebooks for example are great. But the majority ....yeah, new players aren't going to buy that. And while I can understand wanting to catch visiblity of high lvls who may happen through Soltown to recruit, there's really not a lot there for new folks. As one of our guild crafters, I meet new guildmates a few days in who are still using the stuff they started in or who are wearing the npc purchased gear because there's just not been anything else available and/or affordable. I didn't get to Ardoris until I'd been playing a week, I was busy running around doing the Soltown quests and messing about in Perennial trail getting some levels and I'm sure its the same for many.

I mean, folks who own Vendors in Soltown - yeah, you got in @ the land rush and you can do what you want with your house, but why do you want to be in Soltown if you're not trying to market to new folks?

 

I want to add, all Vendors in Soltown are useless.

So, my point is that i simply agree with the OP.

 

Thank you @Schlock for your comment. This thread and your feedback are some of the main reasons I built the Outlander Welcome Center and placed it near Soltown (with a direct wagon connection to and from).

There is a community Take Some, Leave Some chest in the OWC town square that usually has weapons, teleport/recall scrolls, food and other items for new players to use. I've got a LOT more to do there but the foot traffic of new players is encouraging.

Oh, and there is a weapons dealer and Oracle right at the entrance. And a note at the weapons dealer's feet tells you to sell items in Soltown since the prices there are 20% better than what she gives (Ssh, don't tell the Governor she told you that!)

In Service to New Players,
Johnkirk Bayard

 

So lets see here.


This was kinda fun to read in a weird way. Since it clearly shows how naïve one could be unless one has tried to do this for a while or thought it through, heck I was equally naïve when I started doing this so completely understand the viewpoint, and I fully get the sentiment that it would have been nice if the starter areas (not just Soltown) had vendors that was more adjusted to new arrivals. As such it would have been much better if the first thing new players meet would not be player housing, but that decision isn't ours though.

The vendor that has buy orders for "10 for 250g" would be mine. But the funny thing is that the intended purpose of that vendor is the opposite of what the "ripping off" claim of @Vladamir Begemot , it was actually set up to help new arrivals. In fact I actually call that lot the Welcome Outlander lot. And like @monkeysmack noted there are some issues with this concept of which all he listed I've experienced and more.

So since the actual purpose and how it is perceived by players like @Vladamir Begemot are not in sync, I will try to explain what that is about and lets see if we couldn't come up with something better together shall we?

First a note though:
That Soltown lot is Spoon's and Spoon's only, it is not part of the guild/Lux Rifthikers properties/initiative. So it is my personal little pet project, so if anyone should be blamed for it then that should be me and not the Rifthikers.


Ok with that said. Are you ready for a long read? Since this is going to take a while to go through, I will try to make it shortish but that is usually not my forté, hehe.



This all starts waaaaaaaay back in the past of R18 or something in Owl's Head, but then moved to Soltown when I first got a decent spot there.
(I just made a search and the first mention of it I make in the forums is back in Sep 2015 but judging from the post I must have had it for a while then).

I wanted to set up a lot which would help new arrivals along the way.

Back then it was before persistence and resources etc meant nothing since it would all be wiped. So back then it didn't matter to me what kind of objects I put up on that lot and what I handed out to other players. Different times indeed. At first it was just me standing there in Owl's Head and greeting all who would pass by and help them if they so wished. There wasn't that much else that needed doing back then and it was before we had got our POTs etc.

But anyway. Back when they changed starting location to Soltown I really wanted something more serious setup where players-helping-players could have a place where they could help/teach new arrivals and demo some of the great stuff with the game. So way back then it was crafting stations, piano to demo music, books, etc and a public chest with lots stuff in it. (And lots of other players having full permissions to the lot).

So really 4 basic concepts.

1. A location for players-helping-players and decoration that would help with that.
2. A means to distribute Gear to down-on-their-luck new arrivals.
3. A locations to place a bunch of hints and tips for new arrivals.
4. A location where one could easily demonstrate a bunch of different game features.

For this I have dedicated
1 village tax free deed, 2 commission free vendors, 1 house and 1 basement.

It didn't take long until two constraints would show up. Both of which directly goes counter to the goal of @Vladamir Begemot 's OP there and his constructive criticism of the location, which means that it is also where I'd gladly take advice on how to do it better.

The only one I think I solved nicely was 3 where I launched the Rifthikers' Guide
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...e-494-edition-now-available-in-soltown.59276/
but even that one is sorely in need of an update.

Constraints: [game time] and [why we can't have good things ]

So since the lot is pretty much run by me, myself and I, it soon became obvious that most of it had to be easy to maintain or even automated.
This since if its time consuming and just me then it won't happen as often as needed, and I've had a lot of helpful volunteers who has used and stocked the lot and fixed things etc but usually it doesn't last since eventually they would get the feeling of a chore where they don't get enough of an emotional kickback than doing other similar things on their own. So once the Hospitalers came along and did much of those bits better than a single person initiative could then it made more sense for me to encourage helping players to do Hospitaler work instead of helping me with my own pet project. Where @Elgarion and the others are doing a great effort much more worthy of peoples time. (Also some of that became moot with no wipes and the restrictions of the Permissions system as currently implemented).
So everything I have on the lot need to be minimal maintenance/fast/easy to do.

Second constraint is the worst though [why we can't have good things ], it is also the main reason why it looks the way it does and why @Vladamir Begemot 's OP is completely valid in its complaints of how I run things but which unfortunately is necessary for it to work.
Here it goes:

Problems with Distributions of Gear​

So here I started with keeping a Public Chest with free stuff that anyone could take and leave stuff in. You can probably easily deduce what happened, yupp there would always be someone who cleaned out everything. Usually that someone would then also put the stuff up for sale on their own Vendor in Soltown. Before permanence this was no issue since I just kept filling it with pledge gear and such things since that would refill on next wipe.
However the biggest issue with this was the game time it took to refill the Public Chest as often as necessary. Even back when we were 3 players who regularly did so we couldn't keep up enough so that a new player could find stuff.

The next thing I triaged was to simply give out permissions to the lot to all the players-helping-players, so that they could distribute from the locked chests. That way I could fill them with big bunch of goods which could then be traded by players. However this had two problems, first that it needed volunteers to work so the newcomers had to first find a helping player, but the biggest problem was the second one which was that there would always be a bad apple saying they wanted to help which then promptly cleaned out everything and distributed to their guild only. Which led to a lot of admin from me of sorting such things out.

So I can't distribute stuff for free since someone will always take the stuff. (Yes I tried placing paper notes etc, which only resulted in me having to write new notes since they cleaned out those notes to ).

So the natural progression was to go to Vendors. As long as the stuff wasn't free this worked marvels in keeping some gear in stock for new players. So I kept those two vendors stocked with everything listed at <20g. That worked until permanence. As soon as I had things up again in R32 and set up this tried concept someone would be there and buy ALL the stock. And its not just an individual but several ones and representing most of the larger guilds.
So I quickly had to adjust prices upwards and upwards and upwards until I found some sort of balance where it was so cheap that it would still be beneficiary to a new player but not so cheap that it would be too tempting for an enterprising individual to make a buck on it.
Which means that I'm mostly down to selling things that can be "stolen" from NPCs and which I still have to charge more than I want for lest someone cleans out the vendor to turn all those Rusty items to scrap. (Which still happens every now and then when someone is pressed for time).
Case in point would be potions which is mostly only used by new arrivals but not veterans, even those I have to charge the "npc sale price" for lest someone cleans them out to resell.

So while not ideal I at least can keep the Distribution of Gear running, although it does rely on me restocking that regularly. However to counter the OP point. Everything on the Cheap Vendor costs <100g, where most of the stuff I put there is the Rusty stuff and I have to keep the gold price higher than scrap value, so usually 5-15 gold depending on size.

Problems with Gold Opportunities for new arrivals​

Which brings us around to my "ripping off new players by offering 25 gold for wood".

In the same vein and a similar story as above. When helping new players one of the key things they all mentioned was a lack of gold early on. (This was before the Oracle 500). So I usually addressed this in two ways, tips on how to make money (covered in Rifthikers' Guide), but also gold handouts to those who so wanted. However most new arrivals don't want handouts, they want to make it on their own, and as soon as you offer something for free you get exploiters. I even had one guy run through Soltown with new alts to get a starter kit from me, very strange since he could make more gold playing then doing that but I guess the satisfaction of "ripping off" Spoon was worth the extra hassle of repeatedly deleting the char and running through the start scene.

So when Buy Orders came in I thought this was an excellent opportunity to both showcase the vendor functionality when doing demos, but also to make a non-attended way for new arrivals of making some gold to buy the early gear for.
Early on I thought like @Vladamir Begemot and wanted to put up Buy Orders with honest and competitive prices. Haha, you can guess what happened, right? Yea same story, since I'm not running this thing for profit and don't have any side-business making that profit on those resources it quickly became impossible. Since A) Spoon doesn't earn enough gold to keep paying competitive prices on something B) if it is a good enough price then they won't be there for new players instead they will be picked up by regulars C) restocking the Buy Orders became a nightmare since they would go faster than the gear.

So at first I was hoping someone else in the vicinity running a proper business for profit would pick things up and offer such regular prices for better than I could. However most players only does this on a semi-irregular basis, and those that do are definitely not interested in low volume orders for new players.

Which meant that I was back to either not provide such a service at all, or to lower prices significantly so that it would only be beneficiary for new players to use them. At first I put up a bunch of different resources for the same price, but regulars kept selling me ores almost regardless of how low I went, and when talking to new arrivals I had to adjust to resources that they actually could easily find out there. Now most of them said that the easiest to find and the least useful for themselves was wood. It was also a resource I could use myself in my decoration needs of Lux Sanctuary and Guild housing etc, so not a complete loss. Furthermore running the wood to Ardoris and selling it there at a markup would actually be a net loss for me, since if the price hasn't gone towards >100g lately then I can make more gold adventuring (and getting XP at the same time) than I can from "ripping off new players".


Which neatly brings us to today. Whenever I stock up the Cheap Vendor I usually stock up with a bunch of Buy Orders to at least the equivalent of what I got from the Gear sales. When I do so I usually do it for "250g for 10" regardless of the resource since its easier and faster for me. Which means that usually any ore gets picked early but the wood stays.

Now if someone could come up with a better way of doing this I'm all ears. I've been doing this for quite some time and might not be thinking enough out-of-the-box. But mind you it must be set up in such a way that it won't be exploited by regulars, and easy to maintain, and work unattended, and preferably not get Spoon too bankrupt, and still of enough use for new players to make it worth the effort.




Oh, and early on I had a PvP basement so that one could demo that as well, oh my, that turned ugly fast so I don't have that anymore...
...and the crafting materials debacle, don't have those anymore...
...and supplying tools and materials for early crafting recipes, don't have that anymore...
...etc...

But better save that so this doesn't become too much of an endless rant on things that could have been.


Edit:
Funnily enough Chris is much smarter than me in regards to such exploits. Once I proposed to him that it would be nice to have a permission setting where only low level could get access specifically to mitigate the above and his simple response was "one word for you: alts" and that was that, hehe.

I remember this discussion way back when you had a spot on the mountain when we were in Drachvald pre-R32, its a bit bittersweet that the base issues are still the same.

Yea, when we still could "find" longbows in the wild I had them for 22g, had to change that up and up and up to 77g lest they be picked up by regulars for resale, but nowadays I usually just have the Shoddy ones for 12g. Triangle shields I usually get away with having for 15g since they are metal I can't have them too cheap. Plate chest 55g lest they get cleaned out. Etc. Potions at NPC cost.
Can't distribute those Wolf Hat's at really cheap anymore since a regular will always pick them up for resale to NPC, so had to set that at NPC pricing as well.
If I craft a batch I put them there as well, but decent priced crafted stuff usually doesn't go to new players, so I do that less and less.

If its clean then I need to restock tonight, good reminder.

Yea it is me that handles that one, got some help over xmas from @Miseria , a big thanks to her for that.

 

@Vladamir Begemot - This is Jade and I am in charge of stocking the EVL Starting Supply Vendor. I take objection to the comment that we charge twice the normal price for resources. The chunks of coal, wax, etc are marked up 50%. I put them on in small batches and I spend a great deal of time restocking this vendor. I have never put a +10 item on this vendor. +3 is its limit. I believe that this vendor is a service to the new SotA community and every effort is made to place good gear at good prices. I have sold untold numbers of epic cloth armor sets, all priced well within reach of a newer player. I am open to suggestions. I am not fond of posters ill-thoughtout comments that malign my work and the work of the volunteers that donate many of the items we offer for sale. The vendor is meant to be helpful and welcoming. I also buy selected items at a reasonable price for newer players that have low quantities of items and who do not know how to use the public vendors yet. .... All the best to you and yours in this New Year ..... Jade

 

Hi there neighbor

Oh how I wish that we could put up stocks where one don't have to buy the whole batch and instead have it like NPCs where one can buy/sell X-out-of-Y.

Just think of how much easier and so much more worth it/rewarding this all would be if one could put up a huge batch of thousands of one goods, where the new player could themselves select how many X-out-of-Y they want and one could simply add to the stack when it runs low.
Then we wouldn't have to type in the price for each new batch either which is such a uncomfort in the derriere.

 

Stop by Ordinis Mortis outside of Britanny we have some vendors that sell stuff for the beginner and average player that is not rich (hint check out black wolf merc vendor there)

 

@Jade @Spoon I was most concerned and puzzled by your vendors, and I thank you for your explanations.

Jade, I had to do the evil joke, because you guys are EVL. Sorry. You were there to greet me when I first came in game, and again, this is why I was so.... shocked, really.

I'm going to make an edit at the start of the first page to ask people to please make sure to come see your answers because I think this is super important, and I don't want them to skip over them after just seeing the start.

Spoon, thanks for the super long reply. When I saw you had I scrolled past all the other new ones and read yours first.

To you and those who are trying your best, Jade, Monkeysmack, others I don't know of yet, thank you for the giant pain in the ass you've endured. None of us would know of this if I hadn't posted here. You probably wouldn't know of the negative vibes that everyone going through Soltown experiences. It's truly ironic, and we should work together to get it sorted out.

From your responses here is my thoughts on a plan and price points. We are working within the economy so using it correctly is the only way that it will work out.

I suggest a Soltown Chamber of Commerce if you don't have it already. Several of you are trying very hard and it will be much easier on you if you work together. Along with the three mentioned, Benjamin Hroth has expressed interest in setting up a crafting mats vendor on Lazarus Long's vendor.

I believe your buying of mats CAN work, but it sounds like it needs to be done by someone that has money and can thus deal with guys coming through dumping their stock. This is actually a great opportunity for someone with a good sell location, as it slowly make you money. Either way the 25g raises so much bad vibes among people that you've probably already changed it.

What about one vendor being used as an NPC blacksmith replacement until such time as they remove the cheap gear from the game. Vanilla crafting can't compete with the NPC, and it's a regular supply of goods. Buy them in Ardoris and haul them back, put them on a vendor with a note at the top saying "Prices are cost +10% delivery fee" and one under it that says "available at Ardoris blacksmith without 10% fee." I bet a lot of players wouldn't have a problem paying the extra 10% to save the trip, and then they have access to good cheap new items, a longbow for 330g, chest plate for 660g. Heater shield 190g. You make some for your time, there's no good reason for veterans to buy you out, and if they do you've made a profit!

Also, the new players DO have the money to afford that plate, day one they can go get 500g from the Oracle, and as with the fellow I met the other day he already had 400g. With that he could get enough together to get his early kit going. The only other helpful option is to walk to them to Ardoris and take them to the blacksmith.

BTW, this may not be up your alley. Some of us ONLY play to be merchants, and I imagine this would be just as boring to adventurers as adventuring is to merchants. I can help if you like, but I don't live on this side of the pass so if you have some good merchants here who want to try it first, go with them.

Thanks again, hope I didn't make any of you too mad .

 

The Phoenix Republic lots owned by Ker and Asher are used across our entire alliance, they arent personal to the individual. We will be doing more to monitor and refine that in the future but i am waiting until better vendor management controls are in place. I do not put any sort of strict policies on who lists what and how much though. It is just a courtesy afforded to the guild and the alliance members which may not already HAVE a personal vendor elsewhere.