Request Regarding Community Quest writing

Discussion in 'Archived Topics' started by majoria70, Jan 23, 2017.

?

Who would be willing to write

  1. Not interested in writing and why?

    4 vote(s)
    36.4%
  2. Very Interested and why?

    7 vote(s)
    63.6%
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  1. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

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    So one of the big things not in this game at this moment but being diligently worked on is quests. I don't know for a fact but I do believe quest design, story quest lines, and such are the main focus and are keeping our developer @Lum the Mad and @FireLotus so very busy and maybe or maybe not time does not allow for side quests at the moment. I'm sure he can correct me if I'm wrong ;) Anyway whichever is true, I know we all thank you so much for the great job you do and for all you do putting up with us and for the quality of quests that will be added to the game from your hard work. I know I speak for others that we so want to help if we can.

    So I ask will it be possible to have have a large array of quests to release the game without the aid of more to help? If not then could we help in some way? I feel we need the content and in this our offer to help is given freely. Whatever the game needs is what I want to see.

    IMO Quests drive a game, and for some when that content is not there some will leave if missing that drive and goal because questing is their thing. My thoughts are that before release more is better in regards to quests and content. We have months before release, imagine how much writing could be done by selected members of the community to help? I say a lot and would that help?

    Reasoning behind this request:
    1-Without a large array of quests that help to lead the player in directions some things in the game don't hold as much meaning for some types of player. I know of one such backer who will not play the game without tons of quests to do, and even repeatable. This backer is not interested that much in the social but the quests, crafting, and lone adventuring. Release is coming up within the year or early next year perhaps.

    2-Quests give a goal and direction to a player. The player is lead in directions that may not have been ventured without the quest, thus giving some purpose to have to do things. The types of quests would be pvp quests, crafting quests, pve side quests, fishing quests, discovery quests, astronomy quests, etc.


    3- Various ways a quest can be found would be by: a)speaking to an NPC, b)fishing up a message in a bottle or found on a dead body/skeleton. Giving some more meaning to talking to NPCs, and to fish. Some would be discovery quests found while adventuring to give meaning to adventuring.

    4-Another type of quest would be more goal oriented such as achievements that could be fun and interesting things to do with rewards to add even more quest type of goals in the form of achievements. Like you have eaten all foods in shroud of the avatar. Ding Ding ;) gives experience, item, or gold or all the above for example ;)



    Possible concerns to not let us help:

    -Now one concern might be that what people would write may not fit in or be appropriate to the game. True yes that could happen.
    -Another concern might be that it would take more time to implement the quests in game than was worthwhile to allow us to help.
    -Perhaps a concern is that quest writers would then know all the quests which could be avoided if others did not see what each other writes, so they would only know their few that they wrote.
    -Maybe the format would not be right and would take more time to edit the quests being written by the community that would make it worthwhile How about a quest format provided to writers that allows for easier adding of the quests at the proper time.

    Again I am no expert and do not even know if this would be possible. If possible there could be a form to follow in writing the quest to make it easier to add community written quests to the game. Or perhaps some other way we could help with the quests.

    So this is a very rough example and no I'm not a writer ;), and this is just thoughts of what a format would be:


    Quest giver name and location: Guard Anthony (fictional name perhaps) Location: Owlshead in Hidden Vale
    Type of quest: Pvp


    Conversation: Oh please help me. I fear for the life of my brother Silvenar who wandered into Shardfall. Since I am under the protection of the oracle, I truly wish for someone to aid me in my plight. I fear I cannot leave my shop unattended to go myself. Please could you help me to save my brother? etc etc etc

    Keywords: Shardfall, Silvenar, The Oracle(describes oracle protection verses not protected)


    Quest giver: Sara
    Location: Braemar in Hidden Vale
    Quest type: Crafting


    Conversation: Oh please, please could you be of assistance to me? I am responsible for providing the materials for a great leader's Ball whose name is not to be mentioned. I do not have the supplies necessary and my assistant who gathers for me has fallen ill. Oh woe is me. Please I can pay you a little to harvest some supplies for me. Here is what I need: 20 rabbit meat for the stew, 20 carrots, 20 jars of broth. Please, please help.

    Keywords: rabbit meat (explains made from rabbit carcasses), Jars of broth (perhaps gives recipe of broth), carrots (explains can be grown or purchased perhaps)

    Then journal updates and lists this as a pvp quest for the unknowing person who wouldn't know Shardfall is a pvp area. This takes the player to Shardfall and it's pvp dangers to find the brother to obtain the shopkeepers reward and gain experience, plus gives a reason to go to Shardfall.

    The crafting quest also updates the journal and teaches a little about the crafting system. Fishing quests and contests are another type to make fishing have a direction.

    Sorry this is so long and thanks if you are able to make your way through it and read it. ;)

    https://www.nyfa.edu/student-resources/tips-designing-fun-side-quests/


    edited to add astronomy quests, yikes I almost missed these. Imagine the possibilites there. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
  2. Magnus Zarwaddim

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    I don't disagree that a variety of objectives in the game, like quests, would be a boon to the players (and the game). However, bear in mind that implementing quest content has a drawback. Experience shows that in many of the major MMORPG's as well as the more "niche" games that we, the quest gobbling public, will tear through content quickly. If it takes developers weeks/months to drop an update into a game, we all know that the playerbase goes through it rather quickly (some very quickly, others at a more measured pace).

    I don't like to reference other games out there (comparisons never work out), but something that just recently came out was WoW:Legion and Rift:Starfall Prophecies. Now, I don't play WoW anymore, and haven't for a long time, but I imagine that a lot of people already went through that content. I am basing this off my experience with their first expansion, which I remember getting through rather quickly (not the raids of course). Now what for them?

    Same thing with Rift - this I have played recently but I did not purchase the expansion, although I have purchased other expansions. I monitor that community and it seems like a lot of people have already gone through the content.

    In both examples, yes there are Raids/etc. that keep people somewhat busy. But that's it.

    So, I'd be happy that Portalarium polished the quest lines already in place. As for side quests, I don't know that the time would be well spent if most of us might get through it all quickly.

    I would vote for more activities. Yes, here "side quests" could be considered activities if you are doing PvP, crafting, astronomy, objective types of things that give rewards (including XP). Those would be nice. But they need to also come up other things to keep people occupied. Varied daily objectives. Varied daily achievements. Sieges are an activity, and I cannot wait until we get more of those. Obviously the roving encounters are an activity. There is a bit already in the game, and they just need to come up with more and expand on what they have as well.

    This does not mean your idea about getting the community to write quests should be forgotten, but maybe it should be redirected toward some mechanic that benefits us AND Portalarium. I know a lot of people like to hold events that act as quests. And here is an opportunity I think Portalarium should consider: give players the tools to host quests. We have public cache chests, so this is one tool already in place (I would push to tweak how it works a bit to fit in line with "quests"). Obviously there are other tools in place (notes/books/vendors) - all of which could be used for quests.

    But we are missing one thing: NPCs. I know some of the higher pledge tiers got human NPCs (guards, servants, etc.). The guards may already have a "protect" mechanic (not sure if they do, just guessing, since they are "guards"). What if they allowed you to give them dialogue, so that the guard or servant can direct you to the next part of a quest?

    Taking this a step further, if they could code some type of quest mechanic NPC behavior for us (well, technically, it's already in place in the game - I am suggesting to allow players to script the NPC), then we could literally do all that you are mentioning. Could it get raunchy and perverted? Yes, but I guess it can come with a warning that you'd get banned or suspended (or at the very least someone can come in and disable the NPC - @Berek doesn't seem to busy J/K!!!!).

    I would pay money for this. I am sure many others would as well. I'd pay money over buying some home, outfit, pet, decoration. And the community would step up and create some fantastic things I bet.

    And finally, lets remember that many community members have taken lots and/or entire POT scenes and transformed them into quest areas, so there is that!

    My point (tl;dr) - give the players some tools to create quests. Many people already have, with the limited tools, created quests in game. Allowing them to fully realize their quest potential, that would be great for the players (and provide revenue to Portalarium).

    Guard NPC - guards a specific area on your lot, plot "n" points on an unobstructed path. $25
    Servant NPC - "n" lines of dialogue, no interaction. $25
    Enhanced Guard NPC - same as Guard, but also with "n" lines of dialogue, no interaction. $50
    Quest NPC - "n" lines of dialogue, "x" branches for conversation, "y" keywords. $75
    Ultimate Guard NPC - same as Enhanced Guard NPC, but also with "x" branches for conversation, "y" keywords. $100
     
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  3. majoria70

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    Oh thank you for your great post. Well one of my major reasons for writing this is due to someone leaving who does not want to interact that much with the community but yet does not want to do offline. The preferred play style is repeatable quests and goals and quest content and not combat. To address this playstyle takes a variety of quests and achievements. While I want all of it, sometimes I want to quest and I would do repeatable quests if I liked the reward or for an achievement. So I do get what you are saying and agree with so much of it for the average player, but this does not address a particular player and even though yes we can make our own quests and that will get even better tools I'm sure, some prefer to be left alone to do their own thing and work through the content and achievements.
     
  4. Vladamir Begemot

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    I had been wondering why we weren't doing this already, so thanks for posting this!

    I believe it will be a major boon. Perhaps NPC dialog as well, even if it's just yammering on. Not everything in life is a quest, but everyone has a story.

    This can only be successful if it fits in Portalariums time budget. We would need to get quests looked at by a proofreader, and probably a preliminary editor before it even gets to Portalarium. They should get finished products handed to them.

    We need to make it as easy to be put in the game, keyword formatting, a template if it exists.

    Individual places should all have their non-main quest story, flavor, and maybe even dialect. I suggest having people group up, probably around their hometown, and collaborate so that quests and NPC dialog interweave or hint to where more can be found.

    Perhaps some Google Docs for people who would like to collaborate> If there is a template for how a quest gets created, then people could team up if they aren't up for doing a whole thing. Editing and proofreading could happen there.
     
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  5. majoria70

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    Ahhh thank you I love how you put it all together, now if only we could help. right? I think we could help I truly do. :)
     
  6. Womby

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    I am reminded of Portalarium's brief but counterproductive flirtation with player created game models. They ended up costing more (due to developer time required to correct issues, etc.) than simply buying better models from Turbosquid or the Unity asset store. Would the same thing happen with quests? Not necessarily. If player quests were clearly identified as player quests, then Portalarium could take a hands off approach. Further, if they were quarantined to POTs then those who have no interest in player written quests need never be exposed to them.

    Given the right tools, players could and would create far more hours of questing than Portalarium could ever manage, at no cost to Portalarium. By "right tools" I mean at the very least a reliable way to determine if someone has successfully completed a quest, and if so give them a reward. That is why I have been advocating a container with a combination lock, that allows a player to remove one and only one item. (The combination would gradually be revealed during the quest.)

    There are many other tools (conversing with NPCs, etc.) that would add additional options for those creating quests, but I consider something that provides the functionality of the above container to be an absolute minimum for a quest that delivers a reward.
     
  7. Magnus Zarwaddim

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    Well said. Player-made quests do not have to be something that is forced upon the majority of the population. If you restrict them to POT's, then people can chose to ignore them. Or maybe they will find a "gem". Or maybe they will find a "turd". But one thing is certain, as in any MMORPG, developer made content will be torn through quickly. And then what? Even if they polished all three quest lines and won awards for the writing and execution, in about "x" hours "y" percentage of the population will have completed those quests. What do people do then? Wait for expansions? This is why I advocate for the ability for us, the players, to create our own stuff in-game. Not to supplement what the game has.
     
  8. WrathPhoenix

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    I for one would absolutely adore the ability to write quests for my town. I am reminded of the toolset from neverwinter or better yet the much simpler toolset in Sword Coast Legends. The SCL style would allow us to focus on writing and give very basic objectives / tiers of conversation for each NPC without having to delve deep into extensive world building or scripting.
     
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  9. Nadomir

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    I would really love to see the option to add player created quests to the game. But as experience with other games has shown: Any kind of player-generated content needs to be filtered, selected and implemented by a human team... any kind of automation would quickly lead to very unpleasant situations.
     
  10. Vladamir Begemot

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    This should never happen with the quests. They shouldn't be seen by Port until they have been cleared by a team, spell checked, grammer checked, and put into the format that Port already uses.

    That is probably how it should have happened with models and levels as well, Port should not have been fixing anything, but rejecting it instead, just like a publishing house (for those old things called books.)

    One good mod team can pump so much awesome into a game that it makes all the crappy mods worth it. But the companies that allow modding (and Port) should never be fixing modders, 3d modellers in this case, level builders, or quest writers work. If the work is finished and quality, integrate it, otherwise mark it rejected with a note as to why.
     
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  11. Boris Mondragon

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    Nadomir, I respectfully disagree with yoour opinion on the player created quest. I did a story here in the Fire Lotus Tavern which centered around the arrival of the Obsidian Cabalists. I am not a talented writer yet used this opportunity to feature my character and other player towns that wanted to participate as well as key characters in those towns. I also foresee once we have guild alliances and hopefully guild wars we can create quests to begin wars. It is about imagination here though I would not want someone to tell me how to write my quest nor supervise it. In UO we created our own quest with drama if necessary to start our weekly guild battles. Just my two cents. R/Boris
     
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  12. majoria70

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    Very good information Womby. One thing that I neglected to advocate player built quests is because of general mistrust issue some have and avoidance of other players. If the quests players built could be created as a quest would be in the game I would say it would be even better, but I am not sure this would suffice for the everyone if quests are too player looking. It is ok for the community who is open to it, but not for the other player type.
     
  13. Womby

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    Agreed. The fact that we have POTs in this game means that we can make quests without the need for external quality control. By definition any quest in a POT must be a player-created quest, so Portalarium need not be involved and would not be held accountable if it is less than perfect. If players don't want to see player created quests they can easily avoid them. Want to know if a quest is worth doing? Read the feedback on the forums where it is announced.
     
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  14. majoria70

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    Yes and we will get more and more tools as we go a long it has been said.
    And I've always thought that a type of quest could be in the form of work orders, but getting bulletin boards in NPC towns in the game is so far not happening. This would be the ideal place to list quest lines if it came down to us getting tools that make the quests quest like, like talking to an npc. And that is another idea we could add quest giver npcs to our list of npcs that pot owners get, well a long with a npc placing limit increase. ;)
     
  15. Nadomir

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    I don't say player written quests couldn't be great. But when implemented unchecked that will lead to exloitations of the system. And it only needs a view exploiters to corrupt the whole thing. And once a few have started to exploit the system of unchecked player created quests, more will follow... And even if checked by port-staff the whole system can still blow up in our faces when the folks trusted with checking and implementing such quests cannot keep up with the flood of new quest-entries.

    I don't say we shouldn't have a system for player created quests. I'd truely love to see it. But it needs to be implemented really really carefully so such things won't happen. That's a really big thing and nothing you can stomp out of the ground easily.
     
  16. Womby

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    I don't understand how a player created quest could "exploit the system". It's not like quest creators are given tools that nobody else has. A quest is just a form of interactive story telling. Several of us have already created them, even within the severe limitations imposed by the current lack of tools. Quest creators are restricted to their own lots or POTs, just like decorators. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see any scope for exploitation. I don't think there is any need for Portalarium to approve player created quests any more than there is a need for them to approve player authored texts.
     
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  17. Nadomir

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    Ok, I can give you an example that truely happend:

    Do you know the AR-game Ingress? I don't want to give a whole breakdown of the game, if anyone is interested in it, you should find alot of info via google about it. The basic is, that you play Ingress out in the real world using your smartphone as a "scanner" showing you the location of so called "portals". Those portals are located at locations of significans... that could be some statue or house or some piece of art or a special detail at a house... originally there were very few portals in the game which were originally deployed/defined by the games creators using google maps. To enrich the world with more portals there has been a system to submit new portal positions. You made a picture of some intersting location, entered a name and describtion for it and submitted it to the dev-team for reviewing. After some time you got a reply if the portal was accepted or not. So far so good... After some time players found out how to exploit that system. Since those portals are the source of all ingame items you need to play some players started to submit literally every stone around the places where they lived, to get more portals right within the reach of their couches and nearby... not to talk about those "fun"-portals like the picture of a toilet with some "funny" name to it... because of the increddible amount of submissions the dev-team had no chance to really review all of them and soon it was simple a matter of submitting the same potential portal often enough with variing names until it got accepted. In the end we had some parts of the cities were extremely cluttered with lots of meaningless portals (like regular trashcans and insignifican stuff like that) where other parts still have nearly none... In the end the devs closed the otion to submit new portals completely and still struggle with cleaning up the mess it produced. Now (more than a year later) they seem to plan to introduce the feature with restricting it to those players who already reached maximum level and with special invitation or something like that... we wil see how THAT will work... since many of those players qualifying for the new system will be the same "powergamers" who exploited the orginal system in the first place...

    Something similar happend when they added player created missions to the game... where you have to follow a set of tasks to get a nice little badge. Beside those missions which are nice and fun and worth it, there are hundreds of stuid nonesense-missions.

    So what I fear will happen with an automated system for submitting player created quests is, that beside those quests truely worth it, there will be tons of stupid quests and even those that will lure you into deathtraps and the like ... and not for roleplaying reasons but only because someone thinks that's funny... And I fear that the pure number of submitted quests might overwhelm whoever might be charged with having an eye on them.

    As I wrote earlier: I really WANT player created content in the game, but if done the easy way, it will do way more harm than good. If there will be a way to exploit something, there will be something doing it. You can trust on that. So a big big yes to player created quests, but please, do it right, don't rush it, don't go the easy way.
     
  18. Womby

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    We are definitely not on the same page. I don't want any kind of system for submitting player created quests, automated or otherwise. A player creates a quest, starts an announcement thread about it in the forums, and people post their impressions of it. If it is good, others will check it out. If not, it will die a natural death. At no point is any form of approval of or involvement by Portalarium required.

    EDIT: Here's an example.
     
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  19. majoria70

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    We will be able to create our own player owned town content anyway and player quests. I believe more tools will come our way as we go along, but the point of my thread is that to ask the @theDevs (@Lum the Mad), is ther a way that we can help write the side quests of Shroud of the Avatar. My belief is that we need an achievement system and quest system which sends us in all parts of the world we live in. This gives the reasons to travel. In my strong opinion This would include a work order system to request others to gather, guard, or craft for us many things and 'In Game' boards for announcements.

    edited: also to mention we want to help. We have always wanted to help. We need tons to do in this game and with a limited Dev team the community could hopefully provide so much help. Some do not trust player interaction as their what more to do.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
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  20. Nadomir

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    Those kind of quests are fine and I don't see any danger there of course. So yes (or no?) we are talking about different things here (not my first '#nadomirmoment' this week, as some friends didn't stop to tell me :) ) I'm sorry for being stuck in a monday that doesn't want to end :)
     
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