The future of RPGs

Discussion in 'Fire Lotus Tavern' started by Lord_Darkmoon, Feb 20, 2017.

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  1. Lord_Darkmoon

    Lord_Darkmoon Avatar

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    A very interesting read and so true in many Points:

    http://www.pcgamer.com/what-does-the-future-hold-for-rpgs/

    "Meaningful choice, he goes on, should take precedence over scope or variety for its own sake. “Skyrim blew my mind with all the emergent things, the great open world—I played it many times with different characters and never even came close to finishing it. I just wandered around and created my own stories. But I think the next level of achievement in games like that might be to slightly reduce the amount of things that you can do, but make each one a little deeper. I’d rather have fewer NPCs simulated, for example, but for each one to be more meaningful. It kills the immersion when you murder someone, and their buddy comes in to sleep and doesn’t even notice the body.”

    “I feel like in spite of what some people have been saying, there’s been a lack of really amazing RPGs for a few years now,” says Katherine Holden, a Cumbria based manga artist and designer whose projects include the RPG series Vacant Sky. “I’m sure that’ll be an unpopular opinion, but I feel like all these ‘create your own character, run around doing busywork in a sandbox and meet NPCs who all fall over themselves to give you power and authority’ games get a little tiresome after a while.”

    “I’ve always found the definition of a ‘roleplaying game’ a bit frustrating myself, because the actual mechanic that defines the ‘genre’ doesn’t reflect what makes a great RPG to me,” Katherine Holden says. “The actual definition of an RPG seems to be: you have numbers that represent your abilities, you gain a resource called experience for doing things—usually, for making stuff die—and that makes your numbers go up. I’ve always felt this is a million miles away from the actual experience of playing a role, stepping into the shoes of another person.”
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
  2. Myrcello

    Myrcello Avatar

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    Lord Darkmoon - play "The Forest".
    You will understand that a interesting story needs no chat window and blabla.

    But a interacting environments, smart AI and signs about what is happening.

    The Story that emerges is more engaging then the classic ones i know.

    Play it. Or i force you. Grin
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
  3. Womby

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    I was bitterly disappointed when Fallout 4 was released, as it turned out to be a First Person Shooter with quests, rather than a Role Playing Game. If that is the future of mainstream RPGs, I'll be playing a lot more indie games.
     
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  4. MrBlight

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    Yeaaa.. but that was also the main complaint against it. It was a massivr letdown and first time for while for beth, wont go down as a historic game. You have to imagine they are going to step back and go back to what made fallout a success. Or 5 will be the end and a flop.
     
  5. jammaplaya

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    The new perk system in fallout 4, with the 5% bonuses per level to distribute etc, is the worst... same goes for the weapons... AND they look awful IMO.

    Although the super sledge and power fist are pretty cool, the realistic way such weapons could work. Someone actually made real life versions of them lol.

    Here's links for those:

    Super Sledge

    Power Fist
     
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  6. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    They ran 3 into the ground.
    After the rage they made NV, which was a pretty awsome Fallout and worthy of the heritage of FO 1 and 2.
    Now they ran 4 into the ground again.
    Seems like Beth isn't able to come up with their own part of the FO universe. Always when they try to come up with something that isn't based on FO 1 or 2 they f***k it up ^^
     
  7. Womby

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    NV was contracted out to Obsidian. That's why it's better.
     
  8. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    LOL.
    Well that explains pretty much everything.
    It really seems like the FO universe isn't for Bethesda.
    They should sell the IP. Or license it away again.
     
  9. Vladamir Begemot

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    I don't expect SotA to change this, but it's why I rarely head out in the adventure side of the game. I've done it to death for decades.

    What is new and unique (for me) about SotA is running around stocking my vendors, building a chain of stores.

    “I think we have thoroughly explored combat,” adds Chris Payne, a Traveller’s Tales veteran and managing director at Welsh indie Quantum Soup, which was formed to work on original narrative-driven games. “So much combat! Don’t get me wrong, good combat is fun, but there’s a limit to how much story you can tell with it.” Evolving away from fighting as a narrative device is tricky, he adds, because it’s relatively straightforward to model—a primarily physical, inherently dramatic affair that produces digestible binary outcomes.
     
  10. Alexander

    Alexander Avatar

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    To me, a good RPG is the ability to not only tell a good story, but to become so immersed into the world and the story, it becomes believable and real. This is something that seems to be missing, for the most part, in modern RPGs.

    Excellent article.

    @Myrcello - I will have to check out The Forest.
    The video on this looked interesting.
    I also noticed that it's on steam.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
  11. redfish

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    I think its a mistake to think an RPG needs a story *at all*.

    You do need meaningful choices, and the world to reflect those choices. But, if you've ever played a survival RPG, you understand how this can happen without a story being scripted for you. So, the game developer you're quoting talks about going around in the world of Skyrim and creating his own stories. But even from that perspective, Skyrim is a relatively shallow game. It has some neat emergent stuff that happens, but there's no sense that you're a real person dealing with real issues of life and death. You don't sleep, or eat. You pause in combat and drink 50 potions at once. If you want to travel somewhere, you can use fast travel. So, its a really shallow world, even if you put the story elements aside.

    On the other hand, I can point you to some survival RPGs with none or little story which remain engaging and immersive, simply because the world you live in is not shallow.

    Story in a RPG is great also, but it also ruins the same kind of immersion we're talking about when the story feels too scripted -- if it feels you're being led too much by the nose -- if it seems like the game is telling you what to do and where to go and what emotions to feel. Its also a problem with a lot of modern RPGs. Even with Skyrim, even though there are a lot of radiant quests, and a lot of detours. Because playing the game still feels like you're popping out one radiant quest after another, like you're crossing them off a checklist. The game even helps you with that with the quest journal and map markers, telling you which NPC to go to.
     
  12. Myrcello

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    If you are looking for "Immersion" how i understand it - you will find it with "The Forest". :)

    Recommendation: Avoid for your first impression reading to much about it. :) And if you give me your Steam Name @Alexander i am happy to gift you the Game. :) Just because i want you to experience it. :)
    I am currently a little The Forest "hyped".
    And do not, do not read the story or anyhting. They story is very good and all who played it say it has a good suprise and nice wow ending.
    And do not be so crazy like me and try out hard mode as a new player. I wanted it super realistic but i well lets say overdone it. No fun hiding in a tree house and feeling helpless. :)
     
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  13. Myrcello

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    By the way - Mobius AI - they are creating the Future AI for Games as i understand.

    Just as Speedtree is a must go for Environment they wan´t to become the High Standard of NPC AI as i understand.

    Check out the introduction and plan they are aiming for.

    Gives me gooze bump.




    The site of them gets me truly hyped about the Game Future.. .AI is coming...

    http://spiritai.com/


    Taking a note - do i want my kids to play in 5 years Games with Occulus Rift - Graphic like real and NPC that have a AI making it hard to stay emotianlly disconnected...

    ( panic )
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
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  14. Gix

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    Until they have a working prototype, you can't claim that what they're doing is any different than any other developer.

    I mean, Bethesda's been at it for years now even before their Radiant AI technology. The only difference is that they keep their tech internally for their games.

    I couldn't agree more.

    It's funny you mention this because I recently rewatched an old GDC pannel of Warren Robinette's Adventure game on the Atari 2600 and he deliberately avoided having an inventory screen because he wanted the adventure to happen in real time and the 1-button joystick prevented him to do it without pausing.

    I wrote a pretty long post in 2014 talking about the fundamental flaws of RPGs. I'd rewrite the post here but I figured I might as well just link it here instead... including the continued conversation in the blog's comment section.
     
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  15. Bubonic

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    I don't. But I do see your point. In my personal opinion, that is simply too big of a generalization - there are different types of RPGs. Ultima 5 would not be Ultima 5 without the overall epic story line arc. Neither would Baldur's Gate.

    However, I totally agree that a subset of the RPG genre, mostly sandbox-type games where you can essentially create your own storyline, do not need this. I think Remedy is working on the most advanced example of this. We'll see :)
     
  16. redfish

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    @Bubonic,

    I'm not judging whether it *should* have a story, just saying it doesn't need to. However, to whatever degree you expect players to create their own stories, the world and the gameplay needs to have some depth -- some foundation to build a story on. That's where survival RPGs become a good example. People will play these, as they play along, take screenshots, create a narration for them, and put them on forums. There's one I play where there's a running "legacy" game, where players pass along a character for others to play.

    Once you get things in the world like NPC characters, a story to some degree becomes a natural thing to put in. Some RPGs have put in things like generated quests, like Darklands did. Which are cool, but they can have limits and feel repetitive.
     
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  17. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    Thanks for sharing @Lord_Darkmoon. I actually read this article a few days ago and really enjoyed it. The part that I found to be the most compelling and resonated with me was this:

    "But he suggests that the key difference between RPGs today and those ten years from now will be the sheer quantity of options. “Because roleplaying gamers love to have options available to them. Just ask anyone who spent hours creating their perfect avatar over and over again before even touching the story. The Holy Grail developers will be striving towards will be a game in which, upon reaching the top of a mountain, you see a breathtaking vista and revel in the thought of the possibilities that await you—as far as the eye can see and beyond.”

    That last sentence summed up EXACTLY how I felt when I first played Skyrim and escaped out of Helgen. Much like Ultima VII, Skyrim (to me) set the bar of what I want my RPGs to be. A sandbox, open world experience where I am presented with LOTS AND LOTS of options! :)
     
  18. VZ_

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    mind = blown
     
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  19. Stundorn

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    I ignored the intro somewhat.
    My Character was soaked in by accident when he found a Portal in his homeworld (Midgard) and he believes he is in one of the nine worlds, but he cannot say if it is Jotunheim or Svartalfheim or maybe somewhere else. Still confused and Researching the world and all ;)
     
  20. Vladamir Begemot

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    :eek: This is such a good point it needs its own spear!

    I literally find myself roleplaying myself, which is probably not the best way for this to go (or is it?)

    "Well, I have to go to bed in the Outland." Or "I've got project's to do in the Outland, back in a while."

    Hmmm......
     
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