Since the Combat Survey is Over, Will We Be Able to View the Results?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ravicus Domdred, Apr 26, 2017.

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  1. Curt

    Curt Avatar

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    Two changes to deck system I would like to see:

    • When you specify what glyphs can be in a slot a option to let new glyphs of same type stack in that position
    • Have some skills that gained stacks Due to stuff your opponent do (example could had so riposte skill gained one stack each time you was attacked by melee attack of equal or less range, thus getting more powerful when finally used)
     
  2. 3devious

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    He was saying that the analogy was bad not that the combat system was good.
    Let's stay on point and come up with something that doesn't cause me to save up money to bribe Baby Spears with. I already admitted that I don't have a better idea than what was done with EQ2 so you guys please come up with something better to suggest or that will be what we get. I got nothin'. :(
     
  3. KuBaTRiZeS

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    Not sure what was done with EQ2, but i can talk from the current state (well somewhat current, have been off for some releases now) of SotA. I do like the concept but i think the implementation could be better. The main suggestions i have to improve the flaws regarding attention span are these
    • Remove Stacking. It's tedious and does not add anything special.
    • Remove decaying glyphs. Without stacking, glyphs should be used or discarded if they're not required. Otherwise they'll stay in your skill bar, which is by itself an strategic decision. Should i keep the glyph for when it comes in handy or should i discard it and see if i can get something i can use now?
    • Change combo implementation. Combos are the coolest thing in the system imo, but the way they works can be somewhat taxing. Two possibilities:
      • Sequential Combos/Skill synergy. Using skill B after landing skill A (or something circumstancial, like a critical hit, or the hit being dodged, you name it) adds an special effect to skill B. Of course, the chain could be continued.
      • Precreated combos: Merging Skill A and Skill B during deck creation allows you to place the combo in your deck directly.
    • Balance stacked skills apropiately. With all the above you don't stack, you don't combine, you just use strategically. This per se is an improvement for locked decks, and should be accounted for when balancing the whole thing.
    There are some other topics i think could improve the combat experience besides rethinking the , like swapping from the current "hit hard hit fast" DPS race mode into a more "Wear out your enemy, don't let him wear you out" strategic combat, reduce the gap progression induced gap (imo gear plays an important role on this too), and increase the risk of combat and death. Other things that should be addressed while looking at the whole picture, which is "what kind of combat experience SotA should have?".

    The main difference could be precisely in the last question. What can be better for me, can be worse for others... arguments are precisely to sort out that kind of things. Ultimately, only devs know what kind of game they want to make.
     
  4. 3devious

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    That's very true. I do like your idea of sequential combos and synergistic combos could be interesting, too. I guess I find myself seeing combat as a DPS race, too but it doesn't really have to be. There could be other things that would force a decision point & it need not be just running out of hitpoints. Perhaps there could be mental effects that force an opponent to forfeit the contest in some way. There is an opportunity to decide what combat is, what defeating a mob looks like and what defeating another player means. The system is already different for an NPC fighting a player.

    The way companions fight for you should be different than a summoned creature. (I am probably getting ahead of myself but the companions need to be fleshed out as soon as possible because they are important to the single player game and the online game. Thanks for reminding me that combat need not be as conventional. The devs need to make a decision about what the tempo of the combat should be like. Should it be a strategic contest or a frenetic free for all? Both can be fun.
     
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  5. majoria70

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    Regarding this: Is there a way to make each battle a bit different than the last and also smarter. If someone is doing something to them consistently don't they notice and turn on them? I am not sure how this works but repetitious behavior is one thing that stands out. Anyway just some thoughts. ;) Thanks for the results and I'm looking forward to more surveys. Next time I will announce it from the rooftops ;)
     
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  6. KuBaTRiZeS

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    Exactly, whether it keeps the current free for all trend or decide to explore some more strategic options, the point is that every combat should be different. The way it is now, combat feels repetitive for me because every combat has more or less the same dynamic:
    1. Move Around as much as you can.
    2. Keep health up.
    3. Keep buffs active.
    4. Do as much damage as you can.
    Some could say "well what is combat after all?" and they'd be right, but what i feel is that nothing that happens in the game changes that dynamic; you try to keep up with 1, worry about 2, comply with 3 and when those are ok, you focus on 4. In other games with PVE combat based on a DPS race, that is achieved giving mobs interruptable but highly lethal skills, attacks/defenses that can be evaded/bypassed by using specific skills in the right time, or zonal effects that require you to move in specific moments. Some of those are already in the game, and we should see more as combat is developed further.

    Still, i personally prefer the more strategic approach, and the changes i suggested in the poll were aimed towards that goal. I honestly think they could work (Some i written in 2014 when i first started following the project, and been bringing up them from time to time precisely because of that), and in my head they're not too big of a change (in implementation time) not to give them a shot somehow. What i can certainly see is that unless the current trend of combat improves greatly and even beyond the ideas above, i don't see myself playing SotA as a regular.
     
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  7. Snikorts

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    @Chris

    My two cents on combat:
    It should be one solid combat system not two cripled ones.
    It should have easy learnig curve for newcomers.
    It should be chalenging intelectually.

    Few suggestions:
    Make combat phase much slower so we can actually think what kind of moves/skills to use in any given situstion.

    Instead of combo system make "craftsble skill cards". For example if you are using air magic and archery you can merge both skills in to the new cards with special effects. Drawback to this would be inability to use earth skills. It would put some focus on skill managment.

    Make use based skill progression. If i am using sword only sword related skills are gaining. I am sick of this endless mircomanagment system that we have now. It not easy to gasp for newbies, and it is chore for vets.
    Besides it is silly to see how crafting pool works. Mine to death/then spend your xp pool on other random crafting skills. For example gain tailoring from mining exp through cloth armor salvaging process. How logical is that? :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Womby

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    I would like to see the fully locked deck option modified so that a given card can be used again as soon as the associated animation completes (i.e., shorter cool down), but that card can still only be used the same number of times per minute as is currently the case. This allows the player to use the card repeatedly for brief periods in dire situations, at the expense of not being able to use the card again until the minute has expired. This gives the player more direct control and more options. Instead of the game deciding when they can use a card, they now have that responsibility and must use it wisely. This gives more control to the player, as opposed to the current situation where fixed deck combat seems to be governed by an invisible metronome.

    EDIT: After thinking more about it, I suggested a way of completely eliminating the glyph bar here.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
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  9. majoria70

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    I really love this. :) @Chris great feedback
     
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  10. Jouten

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    Deck system done right.

     
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