Grinding in sota

I never grind when I play ESO, although that is certainly possible to do. It was also possible to grind in Skyrim, many complained about how many hours they literally grinded daggers to get to the OP gear, until Bethesda nerfed that because they wanted you to actually do quests.

In ESO there are hundreds of hours of quests to do without having to repeat any dungeon ever, and that is before you do an alt and have a different racial build experience interacting with NPCs and making different choices, and seeing and hearing the results. Of course there are those who complain about grind because they ran the same dungeon for weeks to rank up their XP most efficiently, but that is not the games fault for enabling them to do that.

In D&D people can play for decades the exact same campaign. Sure they gain XP along the way, but if that is all they got out of the game, they missed out on all the fun. The difference from a conventional MMO is that it is party based cooperative or even competitive multiplayer.

That is the difference that happens in games that is based on interacting with systems that create emergent gameplay, with actions having consequences. In SOTA all there is to do is either LARP or grind, the questing is just not there. Something the company actually admitted when they hired a senior quester mere months before they said questing was supposed to be done.

 

Dunno why there are so many failures in this genre. Most the games innovate in terms of graphic engines but fail to deliver something new conceptually.

 

I agree with all those that say MMOs are all pretty grindy. They are. But, the difference here is that this grind is SO unrewarding, bland and monotonous. Then there's the constant return to town with full bags and you can only become able to carry more by grinding a skill for it. Sure you raise your skills by grinding but many enjoy grinding for loot or to complete objectives that help a region progress but that isn't done well here.

I love the world that is developing in sota, but would love to see a little more love put into the grinding process since it's so needed to progress your character and make money. I understand there is crafting and so on but, to an extent, you need to grind to craft, and many are struggling to make money even with crafting (or so I read). Maybe the durability changes will help that a bit though.

 

I have played a lot of MMO's since UO came out (and many, many before that, I actually used to grind in Ulitma's to get my str up early). I have seen this genre evolve slowly to what it is today. I think the biggest issues with these games today is how much they truly cost to make and how far these companies have had to stick their neck on the line for the cost of them only to hope they make their money back. This is one reason why all we get any more is Fallout xxx, elderscrolls xxx, Call of Duty xxx, Battle Field xxx, Final Fantasy xxx, Pokemon xxx or even games like UO, Eve and Wow that are built on for decades. These games cost so much that they have to incrementally build on all the popular games.

In fact Shroud set out to try to be different and I truly think if Port had 200 million to make the game, we would see a lot more innovation.

I still truly believe if SOTA has the time to continue, in 5 years it may be a great and revolutionary game. We just need to make sure we support it for the next 5 years and understand this. I say this because I do see great new things every new release.

Look at Eve, that game started out terrible and had 10 year to become probably the biggest MMO in history.

 

I agree with you, I do. But we are also in the middle of the time *right now* in a games development where meaning is being placed into the game. They have been hard at work on quests and they just hired a new person who is going to do a lot of new work. I really think you need to give them until fall and winter quarters to make comments on whether it is still unrewarding, bland and monotonous. You gotta let them develop, if by the end of the year it still is and the game is in release for episode 1, then maybe come back and see what they do for episode 2.

 

@Deiniak

you reduce this wonderfull environment to just one mechanic? did you grind a lot, are you burned out?
Here is what i do:

1st roleplay
2nd after 8 Month i was the first time solo in Kiln Cisterns, Midmaer Passage trying to enter Spectral Mine, but failed, because i am still too weak.
I was once there in the beginning with some stronger chars, but it felt to me like a rush, less challenging, less immersive, because i couldn't take my time to enjoy it and explore it at my pace and at my will.
Once i runned through Hilt with a group and get lost, because i found that room with books - and the mage was lost in the catacombs immersing, exploring, reading, dying.
I decided to go everywhere at my own pace and explore the world.
I write books, not many until, but i began (german), i began crafting as i begin to stand the mines. As i said Midmaer Passage is ok, Spectral Foothills Entrance i not - to many for me
I am that mage who don't use fire and death, i am that mage who uses Moon from day one and Air and Ice and Life, not because i know something about it or that Air was OP.
When i used it at Level 1-40 it wasnt OP (to me), as i don't PvP until, cause i am far to weak.
I use this because of my character, because of what role he decided to play, what things interestet me from the Lore and what fits my own fantasy.

I never break RP Games down to mechanics, i roleplay them, fulltime!
Of course if mechanics are as bad as they can to me, so that i am not able to RP , i quit the game, but this game.... hell of a show to me. AMAZING possibilities. AMAZING!!!!
I was overwhelmed again in the Cisterns, in Midmaer Passage and in Spectral where i am what my destiny is fighting the Plague.
And i am not bad in doing that - Ban Undead is my friend.

I'm going to craft a harpsichord and already build a stage and i plan to invite some people to play for them a short concert maybe.
I'm going to prepare RP Adventures and RP Events, i already did some.

Nobody, nor the devs, neither the players are guilty if you break it down to grind and lack of the fantasy what is needed to (role-) play a ROLEPLAY Game.
You and a lot of Gamers seem to never realise what this means, where people like R.G. came from.
D&D, Rolemaster, Shadowrun Pen and Paper, they were able to LARP in jeans with just the old Flokati of their grandparents and a broom and fighted against each other like Knights of Light and Chaos.
They immersed into worlds created on a sheet of paper playing with just some dice and having epic fun.
They created games what were plain text adventures, using "grafik" to create dungeons.



Things developed... now we have this:


thanks @redfish

What we don't have that much is people who are able to apreciate this, who are roleplaying Roleplaying games, but just strive for the next level, the more power the more, the more, the more.
MERITOCRACY has done that tou you. The Lie of it is all about higher, faster, further , the reduction of playing games to competition and comparison.

But not everybody here lacks that, not everybody...
You my friend should step back, step outta babylon, stop grinding and begin playing, begin immersing, begin creating, begin to be and not alltime preparing to be something you will never enjoy on your way, because you seem to believe that there's an end and an aim at the end that you need to reach.

Maybe the no-cap is to burnout them to have the pepole left who are educated enough to see what it is really about.

The Challenge of Games like that is not to finish it, the challenge is to make your way and leave a mark in the world as someone who was able to enlive the world with his character and what he did.
Its not about a video where people show off what astounding heroes they are making 50k XP in less than 5 minutes or kill a Dragon Solo.
Its about people who use the sandbox and build a castle or an alter ego a story about their Avatar and begin to give something back to the Devs by enliving their creation!!!

 

it's not them who fail, its us (not me )

 

And this is what doesn't work for me. This constant "if it is not good then wait longer". If the game is not good by episode 1, then wait for episode 2, if it is not good by episode 4 then wait for episode 5... I say no. The moment money is charged (and the game is out of Early Access) it has to be good. This is judgement day. If it fails I don't care about it anymore and I don't care if episode 5 will be better maybe. I won't wait forever, hoping that some day I get a game that is worth what I paid years before. At some point my patience is used up and this will be the moment the game leaves Early Access.

 

So you're saying if someone isn't the type to Roleplay to create their own content then they should probably move on because this is solely intended to be a roleplaying game? I thought the intentions for this game were a bit different, with a world where choices have consequences and grind isn't particularly required as per what the Kickstarter campaign said. Maybe if we were given an updated idea of where the devs were intending to go with the game, it might be easier to judge/not judge if it's the right game for each of us individually.

Also, definitely not the type of person to "strive for the next level, more power, more, more" etc or even the type to bash the game. I'm just trying to give feedback on something that isn't working for many other players and myself included.

 

Hopeless - play Football Manager - really - if you cannot create consequences in your head don't play roleplaygames and make the Creators of Roleplay Environments guilty, if you arent a roleplayer.

It's a ROLEPLAY game - got it? Not? I know, The Whicher does it all better - then play the Witcher for dods sake, if you cannot use a plain sandbox full of possibilities.

really you peoplle annoy me!

 

Just giving feedback. Glad you're such an upstanding member of the community that you tell new players with an honest opinion to go play another game.

 

SotA's a sandbox game?

 

before becoming dissatisified and then ranting at the game at "the internet" because the Devs make the wrong for him - yes - educate yourself and make a decision!

edit:

"Shroud of the Avatar: Forsaken Virtues is a fantasy RPG that combines a single player narrative with a sandbox MMO"

 

The devs have said that they're looking to put in a lot of side quests so it's less grind right?

One issue that could rise despite the extra side missions is the lack of xp/skill cap/death penalty so you could literally never stop xp grinding in this game.

Perhaps if there was a cap to all the skills/xp people would actually reach the end of grinding and get to enjoy the end game more?

@Stundorn, ummm. I know you're really positive and all. But are you laying the blame of the perception of the lack of content not on the fact that the game is still in development but on the idea that players lack imagination?

 

Aye they did. And, once again Im in a thread asking for people to give them time to develop this stuff before... as usual... attacking the game (and the usual actors at that).

Im not sure how many times the devs themselves can tell people they know its an issue and they are now working heavily on it (especially since this is when this stuff is developed in the process).

 

But where is the single-player narrative and where does it fit in if we have to create our own stories with our own imagined consequences?
If SotA would be a sandbox only then ok, but the single-player narrative doesn't fit in...

 

I found the dev quote about their current plans from @Lord_Darkmoon post asking for updates on the single player progress.

I think having these updates and progress of different aspects of the game stickied somewhere on this forum would go a great way in addressing some of the amxiety/concerns of the players. Perhaps it could be something for @Berek to consider?

 

Both.
Ahh i'm just annoyed by these ongoing complains.
Players seem to expect a themepark or a movie.
It's also up to us to "use" this environment and enlive it.
If you cannot i think this is the wrong game. Sandbox Games, no matter how much sandboxy they are need the ability to immerse and creation of the players to enjoy it.
I maybe sounded too much annoyed

I am afraid that all these complains and rants in the end if people dont get what they expected harm the game development.
It's already bad press and i just today experienced again how beautiful and rich this game is. Rich of atmosphere, challenge (at least to me) and possibilities...
If people arent satisfied, they really should move on.
I allways did for years.
There was only few games what could hold me more than 3 Month because they lack having something for me that let me play more, but quit.

 

If would be silly to ask Honda why their car doesn't have a proper sounding stereo in the car thats still sitting on the assembly line while the interior of the car is still being installed.

Its really summed up that easily, especially when Honda just told you they hired an extra person to help make sure that stereo is nicer when that thing rolls off the line and is released into the world.

 

I am sure this will come.
And to be honest i think this is a very, very long term thing.
I know you wont hear that, but i really believe that the single-player story experience is only then "finished" When all episodes are finished.
I think this will take years from now.
But i believe then it will be great.
I dont expect thst much for the first Release. More of a Beginning of a great Story, the pilot of a series.