Official Housing Tax Rates

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Thexedor Markhamm, Jul 25, 2016.

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  1. Spoon

    Spoon Avatar

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    Please note that I'm not arguing that rent isn't too high. My argument was that the price of crowns cannot be used to determine whether or not the rent is too high or too low. So we need some other datapoint for that.

    My personal view is that currently rent is too high given the current economic state and that people had pre-purchased deeds up to years ago and are missing out on playing for fun due to having to grind for gold. My old suggestion from about half a year ago was to have all rent be free first month, and increasing with 10% every month thereafter (1st 0%, 2nd 10%, 3rd 20% etc) so that people can have time to level up and reach mid-end game levels before being hit with full rent. This also to mitigate things like an unbalanced economy, missing loot tables etc. It would have also given a clear indication of where the cost was going so that people could mentally adjust to that commitment instead of being thrown into the deep end right away.

    But to answer your question, Portalarium has clearly stated three things they want from this level of rent (again note that I'm not necessarily agreeing here)
    1 - an inactive player should not be able to hold on to a claim indefinitely
    2 - largest properties should not be held by single players, but rather by group efforts
    3 - gold sink for the rich
     
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  2. Vagabond Sam

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    An inactive player loses property at any rate if rent. Even 1gp rent causes the house to drop if the player doesn't play.

    Group efforts are appropriate for town and city. Maybe even village. But row lots really should be easier to maintain which it seems we agree on.

    As for the gold sink. The richest players have tax free rent. Tax is a burden on middle class players. At best the gold sink prevents rich players from buying up to many deeds when they go on the market. Something that can be sold with increasing rent for every property owned
     
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  3. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    Daily oracle visit pays 500gp which means anyone can afford taxes and have spare gold for paying ahead at the current low rate.

    Port will implement this in the next release as said at the last hangout.
     
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  4. Raistlyn

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    I think the tax rates are a little high however I don't think having a house should be attainable for 100% of players. I recall working my butt off for a house in UO, and it is fun that way. Having a house is a luxury not a right in my opinion.
     
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  5. Zapatos80

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    Was going to post exactly that :)
     
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  6. Tahru

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    These thoughts have crossed my mind. But there is also the possibility that taxes are there in part to keep the value of tax-free lot deeds high for all those that paid for them in good faith. I am not saying I agree or disagree, only there are many things to consider.
     
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  7. Merchant Mike

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    I started off my life in UO as a scrounger and scorpion avoider in the desert of compassion/felluca. I spent the next year scrounging for any gold I could come by. I picked up anything tossed around a bank or in the woods and sold it, and I fought any mobs I could to raise funds. In time I was able to buy myself a small marble workshop, and continued to do the same as I had been doing, while also taking up mining and smithing. Between those I managed to save enough gold so that when Trammel opened I was able to move to a log cabin along the mountains in Brit. Through the next 10 or so years I mined, crafted and hunted my way to a small fortune. My home now is an 18x18 in the city of Yew. I did have a castle there, but gave it away to a lad that was is one of the finest RPers I have ever known. I placed these buildings, and in some cases built them from the ground up. I did not, and still do not pay any taxes on the properties I hold along with my family. I also make it a mission to help any that are in need and have through the years given about 35 houses and countless gold and items to players starting out or returning.
    I do believe strongly that 100% of the players in any game should have the opportunity to share in all a game has to offer including housing. And what is being charged in this game, per day as taxes is obscene and over time will only serve to discourage new players. I have a tax free lot and house I will continue to use and hop that in time those in charge will rethink the tax rates, or find some kinder way to assure that someone does not start to play the game, get a house and then leave it sitting. And I can pretty much guarantee you that when new players do not come, or people start to leave due to such things, the value of all our houses will be pretty much nil.
    To grow you need to add more players, and most that come into an mmo expect to be able to own a small house without making a game their full time job to be able to hold on to.
     
  8. kaeshiva

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    I have a tax free village lot which is my main base of operations. I was hoping, in time, to be able to upgrade this via earning money in game. The deed-lotto system and the over-the-top tax rates have pretty much destroyed this dream. There is simply no way in hell I can afford to pay taxes with the current economic state of the game unless I pay RL cash or dedicate 20 hrs a week to grinding out cash for this purpose alone. Sorry, I already have a full time job and a mortgage to pay and don't see any reason why the game should simulate it. This is a huge blocker to new players joining the game. I've already got two folks living in my basement who can't afford the rl cash investment and have no way of getting a deed for in-game cash for the foreseeable future. I can completely see this causing people to lose interest and leave the game - in fact we've already seen it.

    In almost every game I've ever played the 'rent' has been nominal; just enough to ensure that the lot opens up if someone goes inactive for months. Pennies a day, with a max payable in advance to ensure that someone's actively logging in. Honestly I can't see any reason why you should have to pay more than a few thousand gold a MONTH. This game already has too many cash sinks, we really didn't need the crazy rent and unavailable deeds except buying from people who spent RL cash or won the lottery! Just regs, repair kits, and fuels wipe me out unless I grind grind grind - nevermind if I wanted to buy stuff from a player vendor. Seems only way to do that is to buy things for rl cash and sell in game. Is that really how its meant to be?
     
  9. GreyMouser Skye

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    Are the current rates as stated in the OP?
    13 pages is too much to sort through if there was an update. Thank you!
     
  10. Vagabond Sam

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    Rates are the same. Gold generation is what's been slightly increased with a few more things coming r34
     
  11. Magnus Zarwaddim

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    Why not just eliminate the tax altogether? 120 days of inactivity puts you on a 30 day demolish notice. An e-mail us sent to account alerting the player. Allow another 7 days before demolish. This was akin to AcheAge (not in timing).

    Make a house something to earn. You have to grind for it. Then you have to find a spot. Allow more PoT's, increase lots everywhere, etc.

    Reward all pledges who have tax-free deeds.

    Reward everyone who's paid into the tax system.

    EDIT: Continue to offer homes/deeds in the Add-On Store (this is a win-win).

    Everyone is on their own.

    Done.
     
  12. Tahru

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    One thing to consider is that owing rent results in needing gold. Needing gold results in earning gold. Earning gold results in activities that ultimately drive the economy. Even if a player wants to just go kill enough mobs to make taxes, they will end up selling those materials to the highest buyer they can find and will ultimately have to repair and upgrade equipment. They will buy gear from crafter's to make more money faster and will need more gold for that, which in turn will give a crafter a reason to craft. Crafters need materials to craft which drives hunters...

    All and all, rent is better for the game in every way. Now if we could only find a way for everyone to pay the same, but that is another story.
     
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  13. Magnus Zarwaddim

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    I just think that's an unnecessary gold sink. I need gold to buy reagents. I want gold to buy gear or items in the game. It's not perfect. In fact, I think when the R33 crash happened, that's when this idea would have been best. It matched what people were making - and people supposedly weren't making much.
     
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  14. Vagabond Sam

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    Sure is, but you'll never win the arguement for no rent because the higher tier pledges had 'rent free deeds' as an exclusive reward.

    So that's why I think modest rent is the solution we can achieve, given the reasonable method with a steep buy in is off the table.
     
  15. Karther

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    LOL 500 a day...?? As a constant online player of almost every game that has ever been played.. PLAYED mind you not worked.. I have never had to pay so much.. Its not that its that bad.. but this make it to where I must as a work objective plan to bust my hump.. and make several thousand a month to keep it above water. At mid range levels and for players who do not want to put up vendors this could be an issue.. I have never been one to use vendors. I sell on main Vendor in town. and Maybe get 800 a day IF I am crafting and IF I play that day.. Remember Causal means I may play this week Or I may not.. Hmm If I have to decide If I want to keep all of my goods or have family time with my kids then guess what..? So this would mean a house is simply not feasible for me. EVER which means I wasted cash.. First few weeks of playing I made pretty good cash. But then economy went a bit crazy and people started adding things for WAY to low a cost and I could not longer sell anything. It seems to me 500 a month would be better Causal rate. Or 500 every two weeks. 1000 a month for low end. I may be able to maintain. And Yes I understand at Higher end levels It will be easier but casual gamers don't get to those higher end levels quickly.. It may take us months to a year to get there.. Don't make the game only playable for Grind gamers who want instant gratification. Or it will fail like the later years of UO.. where the ogre lord room became a naked guy standing there with a dagger killing them with one hit with a Special blade to kill them and grinding millions..... When that room was super hard to deal with before those uber weapons..

    Even housing in UO wasn't this high or even like this. Well at any rate this needs to be much lower. As I needs to work for the Dad or Mom or Collage student trying to play when they are able and still be able to maintain a presence or household.. 500 a day means I MUST grind play at least 1 hour a day or loose everything I have.. and that is not acceptable.
     
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  16. Numa

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    Big City = big tax
    Small town = smaller tax

    Incentivize people to spread their houses and lots around. Someone living in a remote hamlet in the middle of nowhere should NOT be paying 500gp/day.
     
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  17. deonast

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    Hmm, annoying that the rates are not linked to from the store where you buy the property or title deed addons. I was going to get a village lot and house. I'm a Royal founder but haven't had a lot of time to play. I'm still pretty low level and sort of did a bit of everything which means I haven't leveled up some key skills to kill tougher enemies. Now trying to level up archery. I had a go for 40 minutes in a town siege to see how much gold farming I could do. Managed about 700 gold but it took 40 minutes of killing or looting low level enemies, just grinding so I figure it will take an hour but that also depends on finding a siege situation where I can clean up the weaker troops. Some days I don't have time and wouldn't login. I still would like gold to purchase regents or crafting goods and plans.

    So for the foreseeable future I think I'll have to buy Gold Crowns of the Obsidians which is 2 a week for a village lot which if you buy in bulk up front will work out to about US $89 a year (100 for $85 + 4/5 of 5 for $5).
    Just not sure if I should get a village lot now and put that extra burden on myself. Or do I just treat it like a subscription game (I never really do those but I guess I'm already invested).

    What worries me the most is I've read here that the rates were 200 coins a day and went to 500 for row. What if the rates get adjusted up again and I can't afford it. Does it mean all my spending / grinding / in game house decorating is for nothing if I can't maintain the cost.
     
  18. Womby

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    The cheapest way to get gold COTOs is to buy them from player vendors using in-game gold. They are currently selling for between 2,000 and 2,500 gold each - a bargain given that 1 gold COTO will pay 5,000 gold worth of rent. That of course brings up the question of how to raise that money. I recommend finding a scene appropriate to your level that has no ranged enemies (no archers, no mages) and selling whatever weapons are dropped from mobs that you kill. I was able to make a reasonable income in Serpent's Spine foothills (4 skull area). Before that I used to go to Wynton's Folly (3 skull) in the Hidden Vale. It has a village full of skellies that drop weapons and corpse wax. Some are archers, and initially you will probably die a lot, but there is an ankh at the edge of the village. You'll be surprised how quickly you can level up there.

    I hope that helps some.
     
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  19. Nick

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    The oracle still gives out 500 gp a day, which pretty much covers the Row. You just have to visit the oracle and take (and pass) your virtue test.

    If you need free housing for half a year while you level up and find your feet, just drop me a pm. We have lots of space in Aelasar's Forest (nested in Brittany).

    Hope this helps.

    Nick.
     
  20. Retlaw

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    1 COTO will give 3500 gold tax credit, not 5000. You are correct this is the best way to go if paying with in game gold.
     
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