XP Loss on Death!

I don't think this should be the penalty for dying. I think there are a lot of reasons it doesn't work well, and we should have an injury on dying system, which I think would work better to that effect I've mentioned in the past and will probably create a new thread on.

From what I understand, though, point of the XP loss though is just so there doesn't have to be hard caps. Its less intended as a death penalty and more as just a way to make sure people can't master every skill. I'm not sure what way that can be managed best, its really something Chris knows because he knows all of the metrics. But I agree if its possible to be soft on players in accomplishing the same ends, I would do that, because I don't think it functions best as a death penalty.

 

I feel that instead of accumulating over time, decay should accumulate as a percentage of XP earned. The current system punishes casual players(since I am focused on crafting I probably count for this discussion), because a 15k loss is a bigger deal to me than a 400k loss is to the top end players. I would like to slowly work my way up to the top tier, but since XP loss is based on total spent XP, my slower rate of gain means I will cap much sooner than someone who hardcore grinds XP. The current system means that it is literally impossible for me with my current playstyle to catch up to high level players, even given infinite time.

 

Goonies never say die. Get GM defenses!

 

This is the heart of the argument for me. The above statement is unequivocally true. Challenging content is more fun. But it causes significantly slower progression. Neither the XP nor the loot is worth moving from 4 skull to 5 skull at the moment, even though 4 skull is green for me much of the time. Personally, getting rid of decay doesn't even solve this problem for me. Decay is just that extra straw on the camel's back as it were. There is just more reward per effort for fighting down-level in a majority of cases.

 

I am in favor of removing decay completely, but if that isn't going to happen then changing the counter to actual play time instead of real world time would go a long way to balancing things out. Why not make 20 hours mean 20 hours, regardless of whether that was spread over 3 weeks or all in 1 marathon gaming session? I for one would certainly feel better knowing that I'm not at or near the max penalty every time I log in to play for an hour.

 

Adv Level 66. Checked yesterday as i was able to stay alive in a t5 mine for the first time.
Playing casual and allways have the max. decay.
I died when i tryed to pass the Skeletons in the mine but did kill them the 2nd try.

Was around 300k Pool and lost 20k xp.

I start learning some more skills and lost more xp than i get from the mobs in the mine. Need to lock them again and just learn one skill at time.

Curious about how people get 200-300k xp per hour.

 

Definitely sounds like my experience, Stundorn However, even at adv. level 75 and just learning one skill at a time (with the rest locked), my xp pool barely increases (maybe 20-25k an hour if I am lucky...) I tend to stick to tier 4 areas now because my xp loss due to death decay in tier 5 areas far exceeds what I earn there (commonly 30-40k loss)

Other than possibly soloing bosses or high end mobs repeatedly, I don't know how other players are earning xp at the rate which you describe

 

Whole system needs to be designed around average player not top players. Far too punitive as is and now will be worse. Not even a speed bump for grinders but huge setback for casuals. Online time only not enough, I spend time crafting, deco ,roleplay... And I accumulate decay? Garbage system. Why have it, it's not capping hardcore player just a blocker for everyone else widening the gap

 

This is why I think decay should accumulate as a percentage of experience earned. That way, the more hardcore you grind, the bigger XP loss you take on death, but everything's proportional. It slows down the higher level players, but has a smaller effect on lower level ones, which is the actual goal of the system.

 

Ye, i have to agree on the lose it a tad bit much, thank I dropped 200k and lose a skill, I be ok with 80k but 200+ doesn't make it fun, it's kinda antuquited, it kinda makes me fill like I work for 4 hours die, to lose it all, hows this helpful or fun, I get you don't want people to keep 138 gms. I get that why not just put a cap on it say 20 gm max, instead of the loss of a skill which should never happen it should always pull from your XP bar, not your skills , and why not instead of you losing a skill you got negative XP bar, so you have to earn that back for before you get more skill gains

 

Sweet mercies, this please. The grind is already significant and doesn't need further a dagger twisting in the ribs.

I recall Anarchy Online for example having a system where, when you die, you incur an EXP penalty that from my understanding couldn't reduce you below your current level. However, that EXP you'dlost became "stored" and you earned it back gradually as a small bonus when you began earning EXP again, until the stored pool is used up. It made dying very not fun, but didn't kick you down, throw dirt in your eyes, AND spit on you.

 

If you have enough experience in your pool, and the skill(s) in question is set to Train or Maintain, then skill(s) aren't lost. You can regulate how many GMs you have yourself. If you aren't comfortable with the amount of experience being drained from your pool when you die, then limit the amount of skills you have set to maintain, and that you are actively training. Only train/maintain skills that are important to your character. If you allow for a Negative XP Pool you have nothing in your pool to maintain the skills you've learned and, if you continue dying, you only bury yourself further and further into an exp hole which you may never be able to get out of. It's simply all about self-management.

Unless there is a good reason for using real-world time instead of in-game time, I agree with @Sargon that decay should be accrued using in-game time.

 

Yea i know what you are saying, in this instance I had over 1.3 mill pulled XP, I still lost skill that weren't set to matine it should always pull from your pulled xp, the skill were not set to go down just not set to matine. That being said the amount of xp we lose at death is to grate. it fills like we are being punished for working hard and spending lots of hours in game the relay only time one dies is in agoup. I just thank it is way too much of a loss and maybe needs some adjustments
ty dev's

 

The problem with this is:
Too many skills are important; the skill trees are organized into dozens of passives with tiny incremental benefits. Attunement requires the levelling of stuff you'll never even cast after having levelled it up. And with the cycle of nerfs doing the rounds each month you potentially need to pick up a different weapon or use a different build in order to even do anything - though hopefully the pendulum balancing will stop at some point. I now lose more xp in a single death than I'd make in about 3 days playing at my normal rate doing my normal thing for a few hours. If we're going to have this sort of death penalty, it should cap based on your personal xp income in the last 24 hours, not some arbitrary formula. Which means If I spent 24 hours in town, then died before doing anything, it wouldn't cost me much. This would allow exploration and trying challenging things again at least, and encourage a player to 'rest' to save themselves loss if they did do a day of hard grind. The ability to go infinitely backwards is beyond unappealing, its going to cripple the game long-term as it disincentivizes levelling up and improving your character. Whats the point of playing if you're not going to progress?

 

I actually really like the idea of it somehow only counting the time you are in battle or something. Perhaps it can count only if you've got your weapon unsheathed. This way the social, and crafting type of players can just play for hours, not really worrying about some time-based max skill decay issue upon death. Not a bad idea at all. Also, I agree that if you're going to essentially force people to have super high attunement in most of the skill trees, just to have decent resistances, then this system is no good. If I want to really be effective against bosses that hit really hard, I have to spend millions of XP in most trees to be able to have good resists against things they'll dish out. Attunement should NOT impact resists. It should only impact the potency of the actual skills in those trees (other than resists). Just have the resist innates all be like 4X or 8X skills (where it takes 4 or 8X the amount of XP to level [NOT 12X like STR, DEX, and INT], versus normal non-innate skills), and have them play a HUGE role in how resistant you are. I'd much prefer that to leveling about 40 skills that I'll never actually use afterward due to fizzle chance, overall practical deck-size, or what have you.