Get rid of Grind

Discussion in 'Archived Topics' started by Stundorn, Jun 7, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

    Messages:
    3,790
    Likes Received:
    5,677
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Estgard/ Cologne
    Really!
    If people like to grind it's fine, let them do it!!!

    What about alternatives to "level up"?

    Quests, daily tasks, EXPLORATION POI to gain xp...

    I need more incentives, really.
    Cannot grind anymore, paused for weeks now just because everything feels like grinding.

    And there was that Sentence from R.G. about it's not.

    And i believe you still don't want to build a Grind Game!!!

    Cannot quest further, to weak without to grind more...

    Adv Level 70, playing since August 2016.
    Immersionist, Roleplayer, Explorer, Seer and Seidmenn...

    Regards...

    @Lord British
     
  2. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

    Messages:
    6,194
    Likes Received:
    12,076
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Looks like you might get your wish, and a lot of our wishes. Look at the outskirts, much less grindy, with actual things to do!
     
  3. Elfenwahn

    Elfenwahn Avatar

    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    391
    Trophy Points:
    40
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bremen
    +1 to More Quests and More XP for Quests
     
  4. Flientje Vantmeeden

    Flientje Vantmeeden Localization Team

    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    295
    Trophy Points:
    8
    +1 for more quests and fun things to do, really enjoyed the pirate treasure hunting at Blood Bay, pls give us more :)
     
  5. Kpopgurl

    Kpopgurl Avatar

    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    697
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Female
    If you think quests are things to do.. You will run out of quests pretty fast... It might work for now though and for newbies I think its a good way to get them into the game. Longevity doesn't come from that.
     
    Vladamir Begemot likes this.
  6. Lars vonDrachental

    Lars vonDrachental Avatar

    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    1,547
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    Regarding “weakness”…did you checked the journal? There are by now hints regarding the difficulty of the quest compared to your avatar. More or less you get the info “should be no problem” or “you should do something else first”.

    Thinking about it discovering POI could really be rewarded somehow...maybe 100 exp per POI?

    I think daily or random task are still in the pipeline. Weren’t even some of the random encounters as small quest areas scheduled? Possible implementation-ideas:
    - defend the vendor in the covered wagon (e.g. 3 waves of bandits attacking a wagon stealing goods or damaging the wagon; reward depending on your performance)
    - find the missing child (e.g. a mother standing at the entrance of the scene and you have to find the somewhere hidden child, once discovered the child is following you until an enemy gets near = child starts to run away or it randomly starts to cry = you have to calm the child);
    - Catch the homunculus (you can find a treasure chest in a scene with a small damage resistant homunculus sitting on it, if get near the chest the homunculus starts to run away, buy using magic (slowing him, accelerating you) or corner the homunculus you have to get close enough to touch him, than the homunculus disappears and the chest opens)
    - travelers who need something (e.g. wood to repair a wheel and if you have the material or can find it in the scene you get a reward)
    - haunted graveyard (e.g. some evil artifact or the ritual of some necromancers is resurrecting the dead and you have to find and destroy the source and the more time you need the more stronger gets the army of the dead)
    - …

    More quests for skills
    Just the starting skills are simply learnable. The more advanced skills needs a master of the school and you have to fulfill a quest for him before he is willing to teach you. Not just some quest for elementals also for e.g. Coupe de Grace (Blade), Draw Strength (Ranged), Follow Through (Focus), Knight’s Grace (Heavy Armor) Pick Pockets (Superfuge) or Combat Training (Taming).

    Quests for recipes
    Untrainable recipes could not just be found or bought at a vendor some you may just get by fulfilling a quest for someone. E.g. a Master in smelting would be the only one teaching a special kind of alloy but first you have to work for him.

    Vendor Quests
    The NPC vendors we can see in towns might from time to time offer a quest e.g. to pick a package up from a distant crafter or to make a delivery to a customer. Maybe even their product lineup change based on the server wide value of passed quest within a week/month (e.g. the vendor is offering more/less different products or the prices for the products change +/- 1 gold)

    Settlement quests
    These could be global quest for all avatars at the same time. All avatars will have to work together to fulfill these quests.
    Example 1: There is circus coming to Britany but they need building material (20000 wood, 15000 cotton) and animal food (5000 corn, 5000 pumpkins, 5000 apples) within a month. Every item you gift is “converted” into experience and depending on the reached goals the circus in this example is huge, small or is cancelled.
    Example 2: There was a natural disaster in a farming region. During the first phase there is healing/medicine needed. The avatars have to find the victims and provide their wounds. E.g. there is a number of 1000 healed NPCs needed. Second step would be to rebuild the houses either by delivering the needed material (like example 1) or by searching “repair points” and by clicking at such a “repair point” your avatar starts an emote for x seconds to repair this damage. Third step could be to cultivate the fields either by delivering the needed seeds or by actively sowing with our avatars.
    Everything you do is granting you experience and maybe even special rewards if you reach a specific level of participation.

    As I recall PoTs were not part of SotA from the start and thus it's no "missing" AAA guild content. As I understood the idea was that guilds can “rule” special areas/buildings and as far as I remember there wasn’t any promise that entire towns could be “ruled” by guilds.
    I remember there where some discussion on this topic after KS and out of it we got the PoTs. And even if there wouldn’t have been PoTs and instead we would have gotten rule able guild towns I’m quite sure there wouldn’t be as many guild towns as we have PoTs today and a similar discussion would be there why just large guilds can "rule" a town.
    But claiming areas/building with a guild is still the plan but currently not implemented. E.g. a recent post of LB:

     
  7. Lord_Darkmoon

    Lord_Darkmoon Avatar

    Messages:
    4,350
    Likes Received:
    14,680
    Trophy Points:
    153
    - Why does the vendor never get to safety?
    - Why is the child going missing every day?
    - Why is the Homunculus escaping again and again?
    - Why do the travelers always need something to repair their wagon wheel?
    - Why can't I free the haunted graveyard from the undead once and for all?

    This is the problem I have with daily/repeatable quests. They destroy the "immersion" and any sense of achievement.
    And this is why a single-player RPG and a MMORPG don't fit well together...
     
  8. Kpopgurl

    Kpopgurl Avatar

    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    697
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Female
    Pots broke the games back. Quick money but its suffers now. They also oversold on the feature, from what I have learned.

    It was planned to make them available by in game means. Also there were plans to make guild castles etc to conquer. All gone. ;)
     
  9. Elfenwahn

    Elfenwahn Avatar

    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    391
    Trophy Points:
    40
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bremen
    Repeatable Quests like "Save the same girl again" are immersion braking. But some repeatable tasks could be ok. Already there its difficult to make not another way of grinding.

    But as soon as the basic game frame is working as intended, Portalarium could focus on adding new quests every week. They have now a lot of scenes, I should be easy to add a lot of quests in there.
    Including some Event quests similar to the Hat-Quest for a limited time with unique rewards.

    The only thing I thing should be allowed repeatable on a daily base are treasures to be found in dungeons. Currently you can loot the treasure in high frequency, thus to prevent farming the reward is not relevant. Instead Port could increase the reward but let it respawn for that player only once per day.
     
  10. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

    Messages:
    3,790
    Likes Received:
    5,677
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Estgard/ Cologne
    Lars i allways love your Ideas and creativity.

    Although i do not stay in Drachental anymore, you will and are still my No.1 Gouvernor :-D
     
    Lars von Drachental likes this.
  11. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

    Messages:
    3,790
    Likes Received:
    5,677
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Estgard/ Cologne
    It's always a different Vendor, Child, Dog, Cat, Treasure...
    Homunculi, Fairys whatever allways try to hide an escape, there are many...
    Lots of Travelers, lots of issues with Wagons, Streets, fallen trees, flooding, sheep herds, lurking Wolfs, Bandits....
    The undead are undead, the are coming endless from all the past away souls of Ages and Aeons.
    I know where you are come from, you arent false with this, but some variations and will to imagine and it would be ok to me!!!
     
    Xandra7 and Elfenwahn like this.
  12. Arkah EMPstrike

    Arkah EMPstrike Avatar

    Messages:
    4,542
    Likes Received:
    8,100
    Trophy Points:
    153
    there is a substantial chunk of progression in that can be obtained by doing quests atm and more on the way, and they said daily tasks are also on the way, but that will probably be some time after july when they bare-bones storyline is complete.

    Also, level 70-80 IS endgame level. you are there. You can participate in all endgame content and make a big difference at that level, but keep in mind its NOT your adventure level that makes the difference, its the level of your skills. Specializing in fighting a certain way will get you to endgame ALOT faster then trying to get a ton of different skill trees simultaneously.
     
    Mac2 likes this.
  13. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

    Messages:
    3,790
    Likes Received:
    5,677
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Estgard/ Cologne
    I am somewhat spezialized, at least because i am trying to roleplay an "authentic" Mage who only use schools that fit his Archetype.
    E.g. I dont use Fire and Death and less Sun and Earthmagic. No Weapons, no Shield, nothing better than Cloth Armor.
    But i maybe will learn some Earth and Sun, because they would fit to a North Wizard / Seidr Type of Mage.
    Yes i am not that bad, but i cannot fight a Troll for example, i need to work on my innates.
    I am not unhappy with my Build / Char.
    Love him after some serious Problems before, but with the help of many people here at the Forums and also ingame i learned to deal with things.

    I love the Game, there was just that Feeling of "running circles killing Mobs".

    I actually want to immerse and run around, exploring scenes and i will do it further and have fun doing it while i'm roleplaying with myself and sometimes other rp'ers around :)

    Just met 2 new players (german/swedish) what are 100% playing like me sharing the same love for Viking Lore and RP ;).

    Need more people Roleplaying around, can compensate a lot...
     
    EMPstrike and Mac2 like this.
  14. Lars vonDrachental

    Lars vonDrachental Avatar

    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    1,547
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    Why do you think it is always the same vendor? Don’t we have more than one in novia? And even if it would be the same vendor…well times are dangerous and bandits/monsters are luring everywhere leaving the safety of a town is dangerous and it is most likely that you will be attacked by someone or something…at least that is my impression on walking at the novian roads.

    Again why should it always be the same nasty “I want to run away and hide in the wood”-child? I don’t know the population of novia but regarding it is a continent and we are in medival times at least a population around hundred million sounds not false. Based on that value there will be most likely twenty million children and with this amount you can be sure that there is close to always some child missing.

    Do not have to be the same homunculus but if there is such a device it sounds reasonable that the production did not stopped with number 1. But I think too that this “event” should be rarer than normal…so to say maybe for every tenth out of the woods guided children you find such a homunculus chest event.

    You are not traveling much, don’t you? Most of the roads have chuckholes every couple of steps just because someone needed stones, bandits tried to ambush someone, animals dig for something or simply no maintenance. With several thousand travelers on the roads it is not unusual that there are some in need of help because a wheel is broken, or they have no firewood and it is getting dark or no yarn to patch ripped pants/backpacks or …

    I will be honest…because there are some evil minded people in this world… I know these are bad news but I do not want to hide it you have to know it. Even if you destroy the artifact or kill the necromancer today there might be some other wicked men tomorrow to continue where the others started or try to do something sinister out of their own reasons. All you can do is fight them and finish their evil drive hoping that this period of peace you made possible will help others to survive in this sometimes malevolent world.

    :D

    Oh and a “simple” solution to make such quest feel less repeating would be to make surrounding each time different even if the quest is always to find some wood for a wheel. E.g. gender and clothes could be randomly chosen out of a list of x random quest characters. Different types of wagons would help too even if just the fabric color of the wagon changes. The number of "participating" NPC could also vary (one time it is just one traveler next time it is a family of five).
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
    Stundorn likes this.
  15. MrBlight

    MrBlight Avatar

    Messages:
    2,388
    Likes Received:
    4,452
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I feel like filler content. Quests. And repetitive missions.. are easy to implement and is what is missing.


    Im unsure of why it takes so long to do so..
    Like i can think of 10 or 15 they could add in a day or 2 that would break up the grind completly, and not have to be a part of story, yet stilll tie into lore.
    Maybe ill make a post about it.
     
    Stundorn likes this.
  16. Solazur

    Solazur Avatar

    Messages:
    1,429
    Likes Received:
    3,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific NW
    Interesting OP and interesting responses....

    idk..I too am feeling the grindiness. It's not just that it's grindy; It's grindy for no rewards. I've not fought any bosses lately so I can't speak to @Chris having said he improved boss loot somewhat. I *do* know that now.. after what seems like an eternity of mostly solo grinding I'm just on the cusp of being able to do enough of the content where you actually have a decent $ return for the time spent playing..but ffs...I'm lvl 89 and tbh...I think when I hit 90 which should be in a couple days I'm just gonna take a break.
     
    Stundorn likes this.
  17. 2112Starman

    2112Starman Avatar

    Messages:
    3,613
    Likes Received:
    7,989
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Im actually really surprised that a lvl 70 calls the game grindy lol. I think I hit lvl 70 in the first month and I am casual (its taking me about a month per lvl now in the 90's). Heck my alt is lvl 60 now.

    Dont get me wrong, its still a grind for me lol, especially crafting.

    I've said it before that the game is only a grind after lvl 80 if you choose to. You can do most of the content of this game.

    I spend far less time now "grinding" then I do just going out and having fun doing the many various things that can be done including starting on quests for the first time in 1.5 years.

    But ya, they need to try and do something different. The simple fact is that this game is made for the 1% guys who are lvl 110 with 500 million xp, not for people like me who have maybe 75 mil. Meaning, its made for people who have extra time on their hands and can play 12 hours a day. I estimate it will take me 2 years of grinding to match what these guys did with exploits (again, with the side note that Chris said they were the devs fault they had these exploits) a few months after persistence. Oh, and it would take me another 2 to match their xp and crafting xp now. So make that 4 years of *hard* grinding. However for them, they did put the time in (maybe 1/2 how much we will due to the exploits) but they still deserve that 1/2 time (100% for crafting, no exploits there). This isnt an attack on them like they would like to think, its an attack on the way the game is designed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
    GraveDncer and Stundorn like this.
  18. Solazur

    Solazur Avatar

    Messages:
    1,429
    Likes Received:
    3,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific NW
    @2112Starman Lvl 70 in the 1st month and you call that casual? I remember when I hit 70 (kinda). What I remember about it was that at the time @Themo Lock , at that time a well known UberOver Achiever told me that my hitting 70 with the time i then had in the game was just about right for "casual" play and this was months into persistence.

    I do agree with the 1% thing and.. while I won't call everyone an "exploiter" it's clear there were some broken game mechanics apparently immediately after persistence that were just left to run.. and run and... this not only allowed some folks to attain far to much lvl wise early on... it also resulted in them (ok DOH) to dominate the economy and also resulted in the 99% getting the shaft as the game was tweaked to slow the 1%.

    Another thing...There are those who have a lot of time on their hands and can play 12+ hours a day. I think we need to lose the tendency to label them as being people with "too much time on their hands". That's a harsh judgment on people about who we know nothing. I can think of several reasons people have that kind of time to play.. being retired, unemployed, or disabled or otherwise confined to name just a few.

    idk .. you say you are "now" able to get out and enjoy so to speak which raises the question why only now? Perhaps because you needed to attain a certain lvl of proficiency first?

    Edit: as to raising an alt quickly now.. even I have learned enough that I could do things smarter if I were to get out an alt to lvl. by the by... some would say with a char in the 90's .. having enough time on one's hands to be seriously starting an alt would qualify as "too much time on your hands". See how that judging thing works? :) not trying to be a snark here.. jus sayin... :)

    Peace
     
  19. 2112Starman

    2112Starman Avatar

    Messages:
    3,613
    Likes Received:
    7,989
    Trophy Points:
    165
    In the past 9 months I never called them exploiters up until 2 things happened in the past few weeks.

    1) Chris called them exploiter (but he said it was his fault) (Source, Tech talk Tuesdays and telethon)
    2) The people who did these exploits recently have posted a lot here claiming they had no more benefits then anyone else and I find that so obtuse that I have switched to using the term.
     
    Solazur likes this.
  20. Solazur

    Solazur Avatar

    Messages:
    1,429
    Likes Received:
    3,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific NW
    Fair enough!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.