[By design] Spool of Cotton Thread from Scraps recipe change seems wrong

8/25/2017 3:32 PM
Title: Spool of Cotton Thread from Scraps recipe change seems wrong
Reproduction Rate: 100%
Blocker?
Details:

The recipe did not have any real use before, where we had to pay so much more scrap instead of 1 cotton that it exceeded the worth of cotton.
This release the scrap recipes has been adjusted a bit, but instead of making it viable alternative for the main recipe, it works even worse than before now.

R45 QA Spool of Cotton Thread recipe: 4 Raw Cotton + 2 Wax = 2 Spools of Cotton Thread
R45 QA Spool of Cotton Thread from Scraps recipe: 1 Raw Cotton + 2 Wax + 12 Fabric Scrap = 1 Spool of Cotton Thread

With the normal recipe we basically pay 2 Raw Cotton and 1 Wax to get 1 Spool, and compared to the Scraps recipe, we pay 1 Wax and 12 Fabric Scraps instead of 1 Raw Cotton for the same result.

Since Wax costs 2 and the scrap is still useless so it is worth 1, that would equal the Raw Cotton to be worth 14 GP. However the worth in the economy of Raw Cotton will currently never become more than 14, and the worth of the scraps will never be more than 1 because of that.

It would make more sense if the Spool of Cotton Thread from Scraps recipe would produce 2 Spools of Cotton Thread. That would fix this somewhat and make us want to recycle more (Although the low worth of Raw Cotton would still dampen the use).

Steps to Reproduce: Go craft
User Specs:
OS: Windows 10 (10.0.0) 64bit
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6950X CPU @ 3.00GHz (20) System RAM: 32678
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti GPU RAM: 10914
SotA.EarlyAccess.QA.Win.64.541.Date.08.24.17
Area: POT_swamp_metropolis_01_template/Serenite
Area Display Name: Serenite
Loc: (109.6, 38.0, 160.2)
Debug: UE9UX3N3YW1wX21ldHJvcG9saXNfMDFfdGVtcGxhdGV8U2VyZW5pdGV8KDEwOS42MjQsIDM4LjAyMSwgMTYwLjIwMyl8KDAsIDEsIDAsIDApfC01MTIuMDM1OHw0NC4yMTk4N3wxLjI1

 

Wax costs 4 not 2. Assuming you grow the cotton it costs 2g each. So the new scrap recipe would make 1 spool costing 22gold (8 for wax, 2 for cotton, and 12 for the scrap). The non-scrap recipe makes 1 spool of cotton for 8g (8 for wax and 8 for cotton divided by 2 because it yields 2 spools). I calculate it would be cheaper to use the scrap recipe if you are paying 4g or more for raw cotton.

True true. If everyone is growing their own raw cotton, fabric scrap is worthless. But, if there is a large population of players, the demand will be higher and the supply will be lower (because a smaller percent of the players will have land to grow cotton). Thus I predict higher cotton prices.
This has been the Monkeysmack financial report.

 

Good catch, I made two calculation errors there In that case it could be fine, depending on how agriculture will proceed.

 

Let's set aside the player deemed economical values of these ingredients and instead just compare the recipes ingredients vs. yields and see if they are "comparable".

"Non" scrap recipe
- 2 Wax
- 4 Cotton
- Yields 2 Thread

"With" scrap recipe
- 2 Wax
- 1 Cotton
- 12 Scraps
- Yields 1 Thread

Now, since the non-scrap recipe yields 2 and the with yields 1, that means you need to make 2 of the "with" to equal 1 of the "non". To compare them side by side, let's just double the ingredients of the "with" so that each case gives us the same result of 2 thread.

So the "with" now becomes:
- 4 Wax
- 2 Cotton
- 24 Scraps
- Yields 2 Thread

OK, now that things are equal, let's compare the adjusted "with" to the "non" (the yellow colored versions).

"Non" requires 2 extra cotton, but "with" requires 2 extra Wax plus 24 scraps. So, based on this comparison, we are to assume that 2 Raw Cotton = 2 Wax + 24 Fabric Scraps since everything else is equal.

However, if I try to sell these ingredients to a merchant, here is what he/she will pay me:
- 2 Raw Cotton = 8 gold vs. ...

- 2 Wax = 2 gold
- 24 Fabric Scraps = 24 gold
- Total 26 gold.

I don't know about you, but I don't think 8 gold = 26 gold. The ingredients in the "with" recipe are worth more than the "non".

How about the comparison of "buy" price of these ingredients? Well, that's a bit harder to calculate since not all of these are for sale as is. but let's try to put a "purchase price" on these materials and compare that.

"non"
- Raw Cotton can technically be harvested for free, but let's say you have to grow it instead...
- Cotton Bush Seed = 16 Gold each
- If you do 3 waterings (4 if you count the one with planting), you should average about 16 Raw Cotton per seed (at least I do).
- Buckets of water are free if you want to harvest from a well... but merchants sell them @ 2 gold per bucket... so let's say watering costs 8 gold.
- 16 gold for seed + 8 gold for water = 24 gold for a yield of 16 Raw Cotton
- 24 gold divided by 16 cotton = 1.5 gold each
- Total cost to "purchase" 2 Raw Cotton is 3 gold. (And it's even cheaper if you harvest your water from a well for free)

"with"
- Wax is simple. You can buy it for 4 gold each... so this equates to 8 gold for 2 wax
- Fabric scrap is tough because there is no way to buy it from a merchant (unless you buy cheap clothing and scrap it yourself), but let's just keep it at 1 gold each to make it simple... so 24 scraps = 24 gold
- Total cost to "purchase" these ingredients is 32 gold

As with the sell prices above, the buy prices are off even moreso (3 gold vs. 32 gold).

From my calculations, the yields of the "with scraps" version needs to be increased to be able to be more comparative. Although it takes a while, Raw Cotton is way too cheap to grow yourself and make thread from.

If you really think about it, if you simply sell the fabric scrap to a merchant for 24 gold, you could buy the ingredients to make the "non" recipe and have left over gold. 4 Raw Cotton for 6 gold (based on my costs to "purchase") and 2 Wax for 8 gold (total of 14 gold) and craft 2 Spools of Cotton Thread. This would give you 10 gold in your pocket and save you 6 more gold for the raw cotton and 16 more gold that you would have spent on the wax for 2 combines.

The way I see it... the scraps versions are a losing proposition any way you look at it.

 

Yeah but like I said, most players wont have land or time to grow their own cotton in any quantity. You can gather it for free but it will take time. If players are selling raw cotton for 20g each, it might be worthwhile to use fabric scrap. Like I said, if you grow your own cotton, fabric scrap is pretty much worthless with these recipes. So, the upshot is that Port assumes a large player base that can't grow cotton with these recipes. For example, if we had gold or silver scraps, they would probably be worth more than the base value seeing as how the prices of silver and gold are so high.
For players that don't do textiles crafting, you are right stating that players are better off just selling any cotton and fabric scrap they get. The crafted result is worth less than the raw materials---particularly for the from scraps recipe.
The other issue is that fabric scrap is 'difficult' to get compared to metal or wood scrap unless you want to fish all day long. Really, mobs should drop items that can be scrapped for fabric/leather just like for metal or wood.